How about this "Minnesota Ice" vs. "Minnesota Nice" stuff?? (Minneapolis: fit in, high school)

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by StilltheSame

I can appreciate that and it works well if you never leave home. But if you ever have to move someplace else you may see things from a different perspective.

Well, I have moved from home, about 3 hours away, but still in the same state, but it's still the same trying to meet new people. And I did, and I was persistant and proactive. I didnt wait for people to approach me.

[cityrover]

Originally Posted by knke0204

Well, I have moved from home, about 3 hours away, but still in the same state, but it's still the same trying to meet new people. And I did, and I was persistant and proactive. I didnt wait for people to approach me.

you are not serious are you? 3 hours? and you call that a move worthy of any life experience? see thats the problem with most people that is only apparent to outsiders

[PacEyeDoc]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

I've always been a firm believer that moving to a new geography is not likely to make you a happier person that is better able to cope with life and/or cause you to have less problems- if anything, the opposite happens as you likely sever many meaningful relationships in the process of picking up and moving to another part of the country or world (especially if doing so alone). I think a lot of the folks that move here, or anywhere for that matter, and find themselves unhappy oftentimes need to find something or someone to point the blame at for what may have been a hasty decision without a lot of introspection in the first place- it's easier to conclude that everyone in a state is mean, cold, or too reserved than to admit you made a bad decision and/or need to work on some things in your personal life.

And, quite frankly, if I moved to a place where I could insta-friend everyone I encountered, to me that would feel like a pretty artificial place.

And is it preferable to live in a place that's hard to make friends where all the people you don't make friends with are all a**holes to you vs. maintaining a friendly/civil attitude?

Or is it just that Minnesota is that great of a place that the only things people can think to complain about are its cold weather and nice people?

The fact that the economy appears to be doing pretty well in MN (compared to other places in the US) is a good thing. Unfortunately, it means that people from the area (or South Dakota) probably don't realize that there are reasons for moving to a new city that don't include failed social lives and/or emotional instability - sometimes, they have no choice! In my field, I can stay in CA and remain unemployed for another 3,6,9 months....a year, who knows, or I can move to the midwest where jobs are plentiful for my field. I won't even get into the cost of living, but let's just say that homes I saw in Minneapolis suburbs like Edina/Eden Prairie going for 400K would go for upwards of 1M in Southern CA, even with the real estate crash. I'm not particularly attached to sunny weather (I've lived in Ithaca NY with 20 below winters and 15 ft snow drifts with no problems and quite honestly, the people in southern CA are largely not my style, even though I'm from here. I've been told I'm a lot more of a midwestern personality. The one thing I would have a concern with was the drastically different social fabric and that's why I posted. One positive about San Diego, for example, is that most people are not natives so the culture here is very welcoming to newcomers from a social perspective. Not everyone, but most people are happy to bring newcomers into their social circle. People from MN might not be aware of it since they probably don't do it intentionally, but it seems like the MN Ice thing is a real obstacle for people who move from out of state - I've been told so by people who moved there from OH and MO, for example. I't s nothing to be offended by, it just shows that people from the area might be more content with their existing social circle of friends/family that they have grown up with, not necessarily a negative quality. As for the insta-friend thing, I totally agree, going to a place where friendships are mostly superficial and people measure themselves on how many "acquaintances" they have (Los Angeles) is no good either. I just wanted to get some real perspectives from people who've made the same move. I got a lot of great info so thanks to everyone who posted!!

Oh, and thanks to cityrover for calling out the 3 hour comment Are you kidding me?? 3 hours is a relocation? That's barely a long commute - if your new spot doesn't involve getting on a plane to arrive, you've moved, you haven't relocated

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by cityrover

you are not serious are you? 3 hours? and you call that a move worthy of any life experience? see thats the problem with most people that is only apparent to outsiders

Moving to a new city regardless of distance is a life experience, yes. How could you disagree? Honestly. Explain. What's the difference? You could be in New Jersey and move three hours and be in Pennsylvania, Delaware, New York, Maryland, DC, Connecticut, or Virgina.

"see thats the problem with most people that is only apparent to outsiders" What? Sorry, I don't understand your broken sentence. But, yes, when you move to a city where you don't know anybody and there are significant regional and cultural differences, I would say yes, it is worthy of a life experience.

The topic of conversation is Ice Vs Nice. I am sick and tired of people acting like they move to Minnesota and they expect everyone in the world to take them in and be great friends...But most of these people will do nothing to try and make friends, especially in Minnesota where people value family and friendship and are often times very content with their social standing, where making an effort to take in transplants isn't a priority.

[uptown_urbanist]

I've moved multiple times as an adult; while most of those moves have involved distances of thousands of miles, two moves were at or just under the three hour mark (Delaware to Virginia, and the small-town Virginia to DC). Don't discount the difficulties of moving three hours; you're still away from your friends or family, you're in a completely new place, and you're still making a fresh start. If that three hour move takes someone from a small town to a big city, or vice-versa, that's another added shock. So yes, I agree completely that a shorter-distance move can be just as life-changing as a move that involves a plane ticket.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by PacEyeDoc

The fact that the economy appears to be doing pretty well in MN (compared to other places in the US) is a good thing. Unfortunately, it means that people from the area (or South Dakota) probably don't realize that there are reasons for moving to a new city that don't include failed social lives and/or emotional instability - sometimes, they have no choice! In my field, I can stay in CA and remain unemployed for another 3,6,9 months....a year, who knows, or I can move to the midwest where jobs are plentiful for my field. I won't even get into the cost of living, but let's just say that homes I saw in Minneapolis suburbs like Edina/Eden Prairie going for 400K would go for upwards of 1M in Southern CA, even with the real estate crash. I'm not particularly attached to sunny weather (I've lived in Ithaca NY with 20 below winters and 15 ft snow drifts with no problems and quite honestly, the people in southern CA are largely not my style, even though I'm from here. I've been told I'm a lot more of a midwestern personality. The one thing I would have a concern with was the drastically different social fabric and that's why I posted. One positive about San Diego, for example, is that most people are not natives so the culture here is very welcoming to newcomers from a social perspective. Not everyone, but most people are happy to bring newcomers into their social circle. People from MN might not be aware of it since they probably don't do it intentionally, but it seems like the MN Ice thing is a real obstacle for people who move from out of state - I've been told so by people who moved there from OH and MO, for example. I't s nothing to be offended by, it just shows that people from the area might be more content with their existing social circle of friends/family that they have grown up with, not necessarily a negative quality. As for the insta-friend thing, I totally agree, going to a place where friendships are mostly superficial and people measure themselves on how many "acquaintances" they have (Los Angeles) is no good either. I just wanted to get some real perspectives from people who've made the same move. I got a lot of great info so thanks to everyone who posted!!

I should have made the disclaimer that I wasn't directing my comments specifically towards you but rather in general about this issue with my post- I appreciate your thoughtfulness in your decision and curiosity about the local culture. However, a couple of points regarding your post:

1) In rebuttal to one of your statements- South Dakota is one of the poorest states in the nation. Their unemployment figures look really good because they have a plethora of part-time, unbenefited, very low-wage jobs that were added to the state in the past decade/two thanks to an insane amount of corporate welfare- basically paying corporations to set up shop there and pay residents jack for crappy call center/telemarketer or blue collar jobs. Historically SD has always been the lowest wage state in the nation and home to 5 of the 10 poorest counties in the nation- so your argument about South Dakotans not understanding why some people need to move for opportunity is pretty ill-informed.

2) You assume because I stated that I'm a South Dakota native that I've lived no where other than South Dakota and Minnesota. Other states of former residence include Iowa (I know, same thing), Michigan, and California. And in California, I actually lived in San Diego. Although I was only there for a short time (basically a summer internship), during my time spent there I was never invited to be a part of my coworkers' social circle or hang out outside of work, and I'm a pretty friendly and outgoing person and we were all young twenty-somethings. I worked with what seemed to be a bunch of stuck-up Berkeley grads that were so full of themselves they seemed to have no desire for friendship with anyone outside of their high caliber.

3) The economy in MN in some ways is OK comparatively, but in other ways it's not. Someone on here recently posted an article that a nationwide study of federal reserve data showed economic improvements this last quarter in all regions across the country but one- the Minneapolis-St. Paul (e.g. upper midwest) region. Whatever amount of jobs there are, you can expect lots and lots of stiff competition for any job that you apply for, so I would really caution you from having false confidence in being able to easily land a job here. Also- the MSP MSA is middle of the pack nationally regarding unemployment rates and % change in unemployment in the past year.

4) The impression I get from my observances is that you are much more likely to encounter a high per capita of Minnesota natives in Minneapolis' suburban areas than in the city proper- at least that has been my experience. My experiences living and working in Minneapolis has been extremely positive in the sense of being invited into social circles and participating in various groups, from both natives as well as a high percentage of transplants (both from other states and countries) living and working here in the city proper. So, your search in Edina and Eden Prairie may not be the best areas to look at places to live if this is your primary concern (sorry to stereotype, but I tend to be of the impression that you'll be better off socially in the cities proper, some inner suburbs, and/or the 2nd and 3rd tier/farther out suburbs).

Good luck-

[rgb123]

I prefererred Minnesota to Texas. But I went to grad school in Winona, MN at the age of 28. Most people were already married, and I did find it hard to make friends to do things with. Though, I made deeper connections there than I have in Texas.

[rgb123]

Re: the moving three hours thing.

I know people that think this is a big move too. I can see, maybe on the east coast where there is a different culture between DC and rural Maryland or NYC or something...

but Ive met people in Texas that think going to college in San Marcos, though they are from San Antonio was a major upheaval and life experience of 'being away from home' (it's less than an hour drive). gag.

I also met people in Minnesota that never left the state. I noticed a "thriftiness" that didn't exist in the Chicago area. And there seemed to be a slight distrust of people from Chicago and other areas that moved around a lot....because money was to be saved. At least, a girl from Northern Minnesota told me this.

[cityrover]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I've moved multiple times as an adult; while most of those moves have involved distances of thousands of miles, two moves were at or just under the three hour mark (Delaware to Virginia, and the small-town Virginia to DC). Don't discount the difficulties of moving three hours; you're still away from your friends or family, you're in a completely new place, and you're still making a fresh start. If that three hour move takes someone from a small town to a big city, or vice-versa, that's another added shock. So yes, I agree completely that a shorter-distance move can be just as life-changing as a move that involves a plane ticket.

my friends and family are spread all over my state and the one next to it. i feel at home in all places since there is no actual difference. We travel and we keep in touch constantly. I can go to the car now and be with any number of family and friends within 2 hours (and gee that would even put me in another state)

if you are imagining that ND/MN are as different as AZ/NJ, then you are only mistreating your own perceptions.

Unless you have actually moved for real, you cannot come near to appreciate the social barrier some locales place on purpose and how that is viewed by non natives.


DC is an enclave of absurdity and lives in a world of its own much like NYC. Using it as an example is generally irrelevant because they are different from everything. But the thing here is not whether something is different but people not realizing how they ignore others and make up all sorts of excuses for it. Im busy.. im tired... i dont trust you... i have my friends, who are you to butt in. go away. etc. all of these have pretty much been restated over and over in this thread alone. It is a pattern of willful beheavior that has coined the term. Not the other way around

fresh start? you make fresh start every day. You make a fresh start when you go to a new store down the corner. No that's not quite it here is it. How about we call it what it really is: complete restructuring of social networks. It is far more deep and complicated than just starting out fresh backed by your existing network in relative proximity to always fall back on. And only people who have never experienced it assume its a one sided process

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by cityrover

my friends and family are spread all over my state and the one next to it. i feel at home in all places since there is no actual difference. We travel and we keep in touch constantly. I can go to the car now and be with any number of family and friends within 2 hours (and gee that would even put me in another state)

if you are imagining that ND/MN are as different as AZ/NJ, then you are only mistreating your own perceptions.

Unless you have actually moved for real, you cannot come near to appreciate the social barrier some locales place on purpose and how that is viewed by non natives.


DC is an enclave of absurdity and lives in a world of its own much like NYC. Using it as an example is generally irrelevant because they are different from everything. But the thing here is not whether something is different but people not realizing how they ignore others and make up all sorts of excuses for it. Im busy.. im tired... i dont trust you... i have my friends, who are you to butt in. go away. etc. all of these have pretty much been restated over and over in this thread alone. It is a pattern of willful beheavior that has coined the term. Not the other way around

Me? Moved "for real?" Yep, done that, assuming you mean several times across the country, as well as various point in between. That includes a small town, a suburb, and multiple cities of varying sizes and with varying level of transplants. I know what it's like to move somewhere new and have to work to meet someone. I don't think these issues are Minnesota-specific, and I agree with Camden that in the city of Minneapolis, at least, you run across many, many people who are not originally from Minnesota, or even from the USA, for that matter. I haven't done an international move, at least not yet, but I would imagine that someone who has moved, say, to China could look at someone who made the move from New Jersey to Arizona and scoff "you think that's a move? What are you complaining about?" Some moves are harder than others, but any relocation to a new city comes with a learning curve. To discount the difficulties in making a relatively short move is to overlook the fact that people are still forced to meet an entirely new group of local friends. Three hours away is short enough to still see from time to time on weekends, but isn't exactly local, either.

I think is safe to say that there are some pretty big differences between life in Minneapolis and life in, say, Minot, North Dakota. I had far greater culture shock moving to a small Virginia town than I did to any of the multiple cities I've lived in. I agree that those who haven't experienced a move should make an effort to understand why it can be hard, and to reach out where possible to new arrivals, but again, difficulties with finding new friends can happen anywhere, and not everyone in the Twin Cities is either a native or is "booked up" with friends.