Newsweek School Rankings (Minneapolis, St. Paul, Eagan: transplants, movies, income)

[Duk123]

Here is a link for the Minneapolis Graduation Rates Results Minneapolis: High School Graduation Rates

There's a drop down that lets you switch from schools to citywide to race and ethnicity.
Best School in 2008 Southwest 96.98%
Worst Edison 72.94%
Contract alternatives 45.89%
Public Alternatives 37.93%

I wasn't able to find a link to show the number of students in each schools graduating class to help put these numbers in prospective but I'll keep looking

[Slig]

Results Minneapolis: High School Graduation Rates

[golfgal]

kare11.com | Twin Cities, MN | Minneapolis School District responds to study on graduation rates

Results Minneapolis: High School Graduation Rates

What Parents Should Know About Graduation Rates - Public School Review

Schools K-12 – Minneapolis Public Schools Lose Students to Charter Schools

School Report Card : Academic Excellence : Minnesota Department of Education

http://education.state.mn.us/ReportC...F000103000.pdf the second graph doesn't include the drop-outs, only those that stay in school and even then only 71% of them graduate. The real rate-from the MN Dept of Education, is 45%.



It is all in how it is measured. If you measure those that start 12th grade with those that finish 12th grade your graduation rates look pretty good. If you measure those that start in 9th grade and go all the way through 12th grade they look pretty horrible, which is the link that Duk123 shows-it doesn't take into consideration the kids that dropped out-which to me means they didn't graduate

[uptown_urbanist]

Maybe I missed something, but I don't see data in any of these links that directly supports your allegation that Henry's graduation rate is only 45%.

[Clifford63]

The 45% number is district wide, and uses a very tight calculation that does not account for a number of things. Most signifcantly it does not account for students that do graduate, but not in 4 years. It meassures students that start 9th grade and graduate 4 years later. It also has 10% listed as unknown, which is very high. I would guess this is an good indication that fairly large number of students are moving and the status is difficult to track.

If you look at the 2nd graph that shows 78% graduation rate, it shows only Graduates (not neccesarily those from a specific class year) and dropout. With no "continuing" or unknown status as the fisrt graph does. Curiously, 45% (graduates) +28% (continuing) = 73% and 15.3% (dropouts) +11.5% (unknown) = ~ %27.

Trying to get at the truth here, it sure looks to me that a pretty good number of students listed as continuing in the first graph are graduating at some point, and a good number of the unknown are not.

I don't think it matters if some kids take an extra year or even two to graduate. They still need to be counted as graduates and I certianly think the phrase "better late than never" applies in this context.

This is a good example of how you can use stats to say what you wish them to say. With regards to specific schools, clearly some of the Minneapolis schools are posting number that compare well with suburban districts. It is also true that the size of the Minneapolis district if very large perhaps an order of magnitude larger than many suburban districts. For this reason, I think looking at a specific school in Minneapolis is going to give a resident, or potential resident the most accurate information. For example if somebody is in a neighborhood where kids would go to SW High, they should look at SW High, not aggregate data for the entire district.

My personal view is Minneapolis schools have done some good things in recent years. Clearly more work to be done, but they did get additional money which will help.

[Slig]

From contacts I have who work in the district there are a high number of cases where students are move out of the district. In many cases the student is from another country and for whatever reason will move back to his or her country of origin and sometimes with hardly any warning. Sometimes these students come back months or a year or two later, sometimes they never come back. I would guess that these types of situations affect the unknown portion of the data or would be included as being students that don't graduate in four years. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in other districts, but with the number of ESL and 1st/2nd generation immigrant students in the Minneapolis and St. paul districts highly outnumber those in other nearby districts.

[uptown_urbanist]

Numbers can be twisted around in all sorts of ways. From my readings of the numbers (the ones that Clifford is discussing, and the ones that Golfgal appears to have used to draw her faulty assumption that a district-wide number applies specifically to each school within the district) it looks like the 45% rate is the absolute worst-case scenario.

The issue of kids moving around is also something everyone should take into account when looking at any of these numbers. It's simply not fair to hold one school accountable for a student's performance simply because they started out the year (or 9th grade) in one location before moving on to the next.

Of course in the end it is clear that a lot of kids are falling through the cracks (and not just in city schools, either - kids drop out in the suburbs, too) and we certainly shouldn't give up trying to help all kids get the education that they're going to need to survive in today's society.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by golfgal

kare11.com | Twin Cities, MN | Minneapolis School District responds to study on graduation rates

Results Minneapolis: High School Graduation Rates

What Parents Should Know About Graduation Rates - Public School Review

Schools K-12 – Minneapolis Public Schools Lose Students to Charter Schools

School Report Card : Academic Excellence : Minnesota Department of Education

http://education.state.mn.us/ReportC...F000103000.pdf the second graph doesn't include the drop-outs, only those that stay in school and even then only 71% of them graduate. The real rate-from the MN Dept of Education, is 45%.



It is all in how it is measured. If you measure those that start 12th grade with those that finish 12th grade your graduation rates look pretty good. If you measure those that start in 9th grade and go all the way through 12th grade they look pretty horrible, which is the link that Duk123 shows-it doesn't take into consideration the kids that dropped out-which to me means they didn't graduate

golfgal, do you believe that if the kids who drop out of these city schools were to transfer to suburban districts that somehow they would have a higher graduation rate?

[US-Traveller]

The Newsweek list is trash. Some schools here in Chicago made the list that aren't even making AYP according to No Child Left Behind. Also many high schools in Chicago won't allow freshman to take AP under any circumstances, so when competing against other schools on this list they are at a disadvantage.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Clifford63

The 45% number is district wide, and uses a very tight calculation that does not account for a number of things. Most signifcantly it does not account for students that do graduate, but not in 4 years. It meassures students that start 9th grade and graduate 4 years later. It also has 10% listed as unknown, which is very high. I would guess this is an good indication that fairly large number of students are moving and the status is difficult to track.

If you look at the 2nd graph that shows 78% graduation rate, it shows only Graduates (not neccesarily those from a specific class year) and dropout. With no "continuing" or unknown status as the fisrt graph does. Curiously, 45% (graduates) +28% (continuing) = 73% and 15.3% (dropouts) +11.5% (unknown) = ~ %27.

Trying to get at the truth here, it sure looks to me that a pretty good number of students listed as continuing in the first graph are graduating at some point, and a good number of the unknown are not.

I don't think it matters if some kids take an extra year or even two to graduate. They still need to be counted as graduates and I certianly think the phrase "better late than never" applies in this context.

This is a good example of how you can use stats to say what you wish them to say. With regards to specific schools, clearly some of the Minneapolis schools are posting number that compare well with suburban districts. It is also true that the size of the Minneapolis district if very large perhaps an order of magnitude larger than many suburban districts. For this reason, I think looking at a specific school in Minneapolis is going to give a resident, or potential resident the most accurate information. For example if somebody is in a neighborhood where kids would go to SW High, they should look at SW High, not aggregate data for the entire district.

My personal view is Minneapolis schools have done some good things in recent years. Clearly more work to be done, but they did get additional money which will help.

If you read the criteria for the one from the MN Dept of ED it takes into consideration the kids that move out of the district. I quoted several different sources, including the Minneapolis public schools themselves and they all say the same thing.

School Report Card : Academic Excellence : Minnesota Department of Education

This is the proficiency scores from Henry-these kids are graduating??? As for the Star Trib article, where do they get their data because it seems the information they use matches the second graph on the dept of ed link that doesn't take into consideration drop outs. A drop out is not someone that moved to another district, that is someone that moved, these numbers are adjusted for that. As for the drop outs moving to the suburbs and would they finish, maybe a few of them would if they were able to hang out with some kids that put more value on getting an education but in general, no because they lack the family support to finish school. Like I have said over and over and over, it isn't so much the schools in Minneapolis but the atmosphere and the students that attend the school. If more then half of your classmates are going to drop out, what motivation is there for you to continue of your family doesn't care vs being one of a handful that might consider dropping out in a good suburban school and having friends around to help keep you there.