Will North Minneapolis turn around? (St. Paul, Cleveland: rental, selling a home, safe neighborhood)

[nick is rulz]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

Some "decent spots" is an understatement IMO. What area are you referring to when you say "it" above?

...Near North, Willard-Hay, Jordan, Hawthorne, McKinley, Folwell, and Cleveland for the most part, acknowledging all the aforementioned neighborhoods have their good spots.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by nick is rulz

...Near North, Willard-Hay, Jordan, Hawthorne, McKinley, Folwell, and Cleveland for the most part, acknowledging all the aforementioned neighborhoods have their good spots.

Cleveland, no- it does not have anywhere near one of the highest crime rates in the city per your originally stated assumption. I believe McKinley's crime has fallen dramatically in the past year or so, and Near North (the neighborhood vs. area) also has dropped quite a bit in crime. Willard-Hay is a huge neighborhood, parts of which remain challenged but others that are pretty peaceful/quiet. Of Jordan and Hawthorne, I would say Hawthorne is making decent progress towards revitalization/drops in crime due to things like the planned Hawthorne eco-village, active neighbors/neighborhood association and the amount of tear-downs happening, etc. (I personally also enjoy the skyline views to be found on the far eastern side of hawthorne, but I don't think these have been discovered by anyone to have an impact on redevelopment).

[nick is rulz]

you're right north minneapolis is a fantasy land free of crime and you get a free pony when you move there.

[Camden Northsider]

I'm sorry but I don't get your post or your reasoning for it. I was responding with my honest thoughts, some knowledge about the neighborhoods you mentioned, and in light of the OP's question- I'm not sure why this was upsetting to you. I was also surprised that you didn't mention the Harrison neighborhood on your list (considering you've lived there)- I would say that, despite what seemed like a lot of redevelopment prior to the economic downturn, Harrison has about equivalent and/or more quality of life issues than some other n'hoods that made your list.

But yes, on a whole, the Near North area has the highest crime rate of the "areas" of the city of Minneapolis and you're correct that this isn't something that should be easily dismissed. However, there is this general perception in the metro that there is a vast disparity between all crime on the northside and the rest of Minneapolis, and I'm sorry but that's just not the case, and the higher crime rate does not apply to all neighborhoods and in some cases doesn't even apply to specific neighborhoods within the Near North area.

It's interesting that I've been accused of spreading rosy-colored misinformation about the Northside with the above post and in the past. When asked to do a per capita crime analysis comparing every neighborhood in Minneapolis on a couple of ocassions, I've always posted the full results even when they weren't especially flattering to the Northside (and even though the burglaries were in many cases skewed way to the negative up here due to a significant amount of theft occurring in the large amount of vacant homes)? Most of my talk about crime in Minneapolis neighborhoods are related to those very same analyses which are based in hard data, even though the hard data doesn't always tell the full story (as is the case with some burglary rates, and as many people have similarly pointed out with larceny rates in non-North areas, and/or frequent crimes on very busy streets that don't reflect 99% of the rest of the neighborhood).

I apologize that I get bothered when some folks on this board make a bunch of highly subjective statements using terms like "street scum" and end their sentences with things like "and that is a FACT!", especially when they are talking about areas that I either live in, have lived in, or traverse daily, and the person making these types of statements may not have much if any experience to base their knowledge from.

[MrMinneapolis]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

I'm sorry but I don't get your post or your reasoning for it. I was responding with my honest thoughts, some knowledge about the neighborhoods you mentioned, and in light of the OP's question- I'm not sure why this was upsetting to you. I was also surprised that you didn't mention the Harrison neighborhood on your list (considering you've lived there)- I would say that, despite what seemed like a lot of redevelopment prior to the economic downturn, Harrison has about equivalent and/or more quality of life issues than some other n'hoods that made your list.

But yes, on a whole, the Near North area has the highest crime rate of the "areas" of the city of Minneapolis and you're correct that this isn't something that should be easily dismissed. However, there is this general perception in the metro that there is a vast disparity between all crime on the northside and the rest of Minneapolis, and I'm sorry but that's just not the case, and the higher crime rate does not apply to all neighborhoods and in some cases doesn't even apply to specific neighborhoods within the Near North area.

It's interesting that I've been accused of spreading rosy-colored misinformation about the Northside with the above post and in the past. When asked to do a per capita crime analysis comparing every neighborhood in Minneapolis on a couple of ocassions, I've always posted the full results even when they weren't especially flattering to the Northside (and even though the burglaries were in many cases skewed way to the negative up here due to a significant amount of theft occurring in the large amount of vacant homes)? Most of my talk about crime in Minneapolis neighborhoods are related to those very same analyses which are based in hard data, even though the hard data doesn't always tell the full story (as is the case with some burglary rates, and as many people have similarly pointed out with larceny rates in non-North areas, and/or frequent crimes on very busy streets that don't reflect 99% of the rest of the neighborhood).

I apologize that I get bothered when some folks on this board make a bunch of highly subjective statements using terms like "street scum" and end their sentences with things like "and that is a FACT!", especially when they are talking about areas that I either live in, have lived in, or traverse daily, and the person making these types of statements may not have much if any experience to base their knowledge from.

Dude there is a reason why you are the only "voice" of the northside. The place is not a nice place and theres no ifs ands or buts about it. Just driving there from downtown on washington you know your in the bad part of town. Is it murder city? No. Do 99% of murders happen in north minneapolis? YES.

You cant see the forest for the trees, citing specific little areas of "niceness" is like trying to polish a turd. What you fail to cite is all the UNREPORTED crime that happens in north minneapolis. The people hangin outside on the block, the young thugs doin petty crimes, the drug dealers rollin around. The stuff that doesnt get busted everyday. I mean dawg, its the ****in hood...at least be real about it. Dont try to depict it as something its not.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by MrMinneapolis

Dude there is a reason why you are the only "voice" of the northside. The place is not a nice place and theres no ifs ands or buts about it. Just driving there from downtown on washington you know your in the bad part of town. Is it murder city? No. Do 99% of murders happen in north minneapolis? YES.

You cant see the forest for the trees, citing specific little areas of "niceness" is like trying to polish a turd. What you fail to cite is all the UNREPORTED crime that happens in north minneapolis. The people hangin outside on the block, the young thugs doin petty crimes, the drug dealers rollin around. The stuff that doesnt get busted everyday. I mean dawg, its the ****in hood...at least be real about it. Dont try to depict it as something its not.

Check your statistics. Crime does not exclusively (or 99% happen) in North Minneapolis (and as far as unreported crime, why would that happen only in North Minneapolis and not elsewhere?), and yes, there are many nice neighborhoods there. I don't comment on North Minneapolis neighborhoods very much because I don't know them well enough to be much use, but it's not like every block has drug dealers sitting out front. Some areas are rough, some are not, and some are in the middle. Painting an entire section of the city with such broad brushstrokes is overly simplistic.

As far as Camden being the voice of the northside, that's just luck of the draw; there don't seem to be a lot of regulars on here from that side of town, but that doesn't reflect anything other than the fact that many of the people on this board have more personal knowledge or experience with other areas. There are a lot of other neighborhoods or suburbs that don't get discussed much, either, but that doesn't mean they're all terrible places to live.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by MrMinneapolis

Dude there is a reason why you are the only "voice" of the northside. The place is not a nice place and theres no ifs ands or buts about it. Just driving there from downtown on washington you know your in the bad part of town. Is it murder city? No. Do 99% of murders happen in north minneapolis? YES.

You cant see the forest for the trees, citing specific little areas of "niceness" is like trying to polish a turd. What you fail to cite is all the UNREPORTED crime that happens in north minneapolis. The people hangin outside on the block, the young thugs doin petty crimes, the drug dealers rollin around. The stuff that doesnt get busted everyday. I mean dawg, its the ****in hood...at least be real about it. Dont try to depict it as something its not.

Last year there were as many murders in other areas of Minneapolis as there were in North Minneapolis, and for much of last year (and this year) there were more murders on the Southside than the north. Do tell how you know about all of this unreported crime, and how this must only exist in North Minneapolis. I spend most days in North Minneapolis, either at home at night or one of the offices I work out of. How much time do you spend there?

[MrMinneapolis]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

Last year there were as many murders in other areas of Minneapolis as there were in North Minneapolis, and for much of last year (and this year) there were more murders on the Southside than the north. Do tell how you know about all of this unreported crime, and how this must only exist in North Minneapolis. I spend most days in North Minneapolis, either at home at night or one of the offices I work out of. How much time do you spend there?

I have nothing to argue or prove to you, your obviously happy being the northside crusader. Anyone with a bit of sense knows they wouldnt want to raise a family there. Theres a reason every thug rocks a NORTHSIDE t shirt. I wonder why that could be? I spend alot of time downtown, working at clubs and just being in the scene. Theres a certain demographic that gravitates to the north an thats thugs and criminals. Thats the bottomline. Ask any Minneapolis cop what he thinks about the northside and thats where the truth will be heard.

[uptown_urbanist]

I know people who have purchased homes in North Minneapolis BECAUSE they were having kids. They wanted to buy a house, and they could get a family-friendly neighborhood at a more affordable price in some of the neighborhoods on that side of town.

If the bulk of your knowledge comes from working downtown clubs and "being in the scene" then I think it's a safe guess that your experience is a bit skewed.

[MPLSCleveland]

Originally Posted by MrMinneapolis

Dude there is a reason why you are the only "voice" of the northside. The place is not a nice place and theres no ifs ands or buts about it. Just driving there from downtown on washington you know your in the bad part of town. Is it murder city? No. Do 99% of murders happen in north minneapolis? YES.

You cant see the forest for the trees, citing specific little areas of "niceness" is like trying to polish a turd. What you fail to cite is all the UNREPORTED crime that happens in north minneapolis. The people hangin outside on the block, the young thugs doin petty crimes, the drug dealers rollin around. The stuff that doesnt get busted everyday. I mean dawg, its the ****in hood...at least be real about it. Dont try to depict it as something its not.

I said I wouldn't post on another one of these threads, but hey, here I am again.
99% of murders are in North. Let me go check the crime statistics for the year thru Sept 30, 2009 (these are posted on the city website):
Total Homicides - 15
Total in North (which is North and Camden) - 6 aka 40%

Or, we can look at the full year 2008:
Total Homicides -39
Total in North (same area again) -18 aka 46%

How about 2007 then:
Total Homicides - 47
Total in North (again, same area) - 27 aka 57.44%

hmmm, maybe 2006:
Total Homicides - 57
Total in North (Camden/North) - 28 aka 49.12%

I pulled these stats to make a point. Preconceived notions of an area can usually be proven wrong by just looking at statistics. No one is arguing that North is some mystical wonderful Happy land without any problems. We have a lot of problems up here. The thing is, things have gotten a lot better here the last few years. Between that and the great value in housing up here, It is the reason I decided to sell my condo in Edina and buy a house up here in Feb '09 (Cleveland neighborhood). Yes, parts of North are still pretty rough. There is no arguing that. There is also no way to argue that is some he**hole of urban dystopia either. I am sorry, but murder is down drastically, violent crime overall is down over 40% since 2006, and still declining. There is no arguing that either.

There are residents here that have worked their butts off to get this area to improve, and are having some major success in some of them. There are more than a few little areas of niceness also. I can go down the list, but in some peoples view, it would not matter. They have their view of North and that is the only one in their world. As I said, there are problems here, but it is not the mid 1990's anymore, crap, it isn't even 2006.