Minneapolis and the Metrodome's Mojo (Viking: home, metropolitan, building)

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by Slig

You're right that the whole Downtown East area in general is kind of sad. However, I think alot of that has to do with the environment emanated from the facility itself. Nobody probably understood at the time that what they were building was the ugly monstrosity that was the metrodome. If they had built a Wrigley Field-esque stadium it probably would have spurred a Wrigleyville. Look what happened at the area around the Target Center after it was built, now that area is a popular nightclub area with popular tourist draws like The Hard Rock Cafe and Gameworks nearby. I predict the same will happen with Target Field. It'll spawn a mini-Wrigleyville along with expensive condos, etc.

Let's say they blow up the dome and build a brand new state of the art retractable roof football stadium. If they start to allow things on sight like tailgating and get the NFL experience going it will spawn nearby bars and entertainment, guaranteed. I think the whole lack of tailgating aspect of the dome was the nail in the coffin as far as getting excitement and development in the area.

Neh. I still don't buy any of it. It will never be like Wrigley Field. That opened in 1914, before everyone had a car, when neighbourhoods like that were the norm.

I honestly prefer the Milwaukee setup. The infrastructure is fantastic. Parking as far as the eye can see, of course you can tailgate, plenty of freeway access. I think Target Field should have been built near the MOA. Trying to force neighbourhood development by building a stadium in a downtown with limited infrastructure doesn't really work.

As far as the Target Center...that opened in 1990. Hard Rock and Gameworks opened around 2002 -- and Block E is generally considered to be a failure. I've never heard anyone really say any of that development is due to the proximity of the Target Center. I could be wrong, but I think it's coincidental. Gameworks is on its last legs (thank god).

Maybe the whole setup could work if someone came in with the entire plan (and a whole lot of money). I'm talking about housing, commercial space, etc., that is built along with the stadium. Still, trying to keep businesses around in the Metrodome area is going to be very difficult. People show up for ~4 hours once a week. hard to maintain anything with that kind of setup.

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by Minnehahapolitan

I'll take Cedar-Riverside over a Vikings' game anyday. The players on the West Bank are far more interesting and entertaining.

Yeah since the Gophers are so good. And have a great track record of being entertaining. The Gophers are garbage..One of the largest Universities in the USA and in the Big 10, but just embarassing when it comes to athletics. Bring a championship and we'll talk. And please, please dont mention the crap bowl games they went to during the previous coaches tenre.

[knke0204]

Originally Posted by Globe199

Really? Issues? My issue is paying the $50+ it will cost to go to a game. Not many people want to sit in that kind of weather for that kind of money. That's my issue. Furthermore, it's well-established that the Twins' fanbase spans a large geographical area. Concerns have been raised regarding fans traveling big distances and having games canceled due to weather.



In case you didn't notice, the regular season ended Sunday. It rained most of the weekend, with highs that barely reached 50°. It is unlikely those games would have been played had the stadium been outdoors.



And on opening day 2008, we got a huge snow storm that would have easily canceled the game. The weather here is highly variable.



I think the point is that the Pohlads should have ponied up the dough for a roof. Taxpayers in Hennepin County paid about two-thirds the cost of the stadium. The extra cost for a retractable roof, in theory, would not have been paid by citizens.



Thanks for your thoughtful contributions to this discussion. I deeply apologize for embarrassing you.



How do you know it didn't scare anybody? Did you take fan surveys in the 1970s? Did you call people who didn't go to games? Pure conjecture. The point is that Met Stadium was built in the 50s, for a different era in baseball. Everything I've read said that the stadium sucked even then. The game (and stadiums) have changed. People expect more amenities. I've been to many games at Miller Park, and several times it's rained. That's a long drive. The fact that they have a roof means the game will be played regardless of the weather.

Frankly, I don't care what happened at Met Stadium 30-plus years ago. Target Field should have had a roof.



Boston and NY are not fair comparisons. Those stadiums fill no matter what's happening in the sky. We are not the Red Sox nor Yankees. Chicago Cubs are in the same boat. The White Sox, on the other hand, had to reschedule a bunch of games in early 2008 because of snow/cold.

Again, I appreciate your such insightful comments. I'll stop my crying now.

The fact of the matter is that most people are wanting their cake and to eat it as well. You got a stadium. A beautiful state of the art stadium. And people are crying about a roof? What? What do you have to be scared of? The random bad weather in early April when the Twins might be in town? I'm not even worried about the end of the season, weather really doesnt get bad til End of Oct anyway.

Put on your hooded sweatshirts, grab a beer, and cheer for the Twinnies. The last thing you will worry about is the cold or the stupid family from Pipestone that drove up to the cities and have to deal with the bad weather, when they knew what they should have been dealing with.

[Minnehahapolitan]

Originally Posted by knke0204

Yeah since the Gophers are so good. And have a great track record of being entertaining. The Gophers are garbage..One of the largest Universities in the USA and in the Big 10, but just embarassing when it comes to athletics. Bring a championship and we'll talk. And please, please dont mention the crap bowl games they went to during the previous coaches tenre.

Do you live in the same city that I do? When did the Gophers ever, in the history of their organization, play any sport on the West Bank or Cedar-Riverside? Baseball is in Dinkytown. Basketball and Hockey have always been played in Dinkytown. Football was played in Stadium Village for over 80 years, and moved Downtown. If you have heard of any plans to build a D-I soccer arena at Augsburg, pray share. I was not talking about sports at all. For someone who smokes as much marijuana as you claim, you sure are belligerent.

[Minnehahapolitan]

Originally Posted by knke0204

The fact of the matter is that most people are wanting their cake and to eat it as well. You got a stadium. A beautiful state of the art stadium. And people are crying about a roof? What? What do you have to be scared of? The random bad weather in early April when the Twins might be in town? I'm not even worried about the end of the season, weather really doesnt get bad til End of Oct anyway.

Put on your hooded sweatshirts, grab a beer, and cheer for the Twinnies. The last thing you will worry about is the cold or the stupid family from Pipestone that drove up to the cities and have to deal with the bad weather, when they knew what they should have been dealing with.

Yeah, the family who plan their visits weeks in advance so their kids can watch a baseball game deserve to get rained on. They are just weak and embarrassing to the rest of us. They absolutely should have thought about things like that before they took time off work, or made hotel reservations or purchased tickets. God, what will the weather be like 21 days from now?

[Minnehahapolitan]

Originally Posted by Globe199

Neh. I still don't buy any of it. It will never be like Wrigley Field. That opened in 1914, before everyone had a car, when neighbourhoods like that were the norm.

I honestly prefer the Milwaukee setup. The infrastructure is fantastic. Parking as far as the eye can see, of course you can tailgate, plenty of freeway access. I think Target Field should have been built near the MOA. Trying to force neighbourhood development by building a stadium in a downtown with limited infrastructure doesn't really work.

As far as the Target Center...that opened in 1990. Hard Rock and Gameworks opened around 2002 -- and Block E is generally considered to be a failure. I've never heard anyone really say any of that development is due to the proximity of the Target Center. I could be wrong, but I think it's coincidental. Gameworks is on its last legs (thank god).

Maybe the whole setup could work if someone came in with the entire plan (and a whole lot of money). I'm talking about housing, commercial space, etc., that is built along with the stadium. Still, trying to keep businesses around in the Metrodome area is going to be very difficult. People show up for ~4 hours once a week. hard to maintain anything with that kind of setup.

Block E has a different background because it wasn't there until 2002. The Target Center didn't have a huge effect, but it did help to bring businesses into the then-abandoned Warehouse District.
Also, before the economy tanked, there were plans for a couple thousand units and a fair amount of retail space around the Twins stadium.
Longtime business partners hope Twinsville concept is a hit - Topic Powered by Eve Community

[Minnehahapolitan]

Originally Posted by Globe199

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the argument that a stadium will spur development. That's exactly what they said would happen with the Metrodome neightbourhood...I don't have to tell you how that turned out. It is not an area you go anywhere near when there isn't a game.

The problem that prevented alot of development around the Metrodome has to do with factors that don't exist anymore.
1. There was little in the way of public transportation to downtown. City buses, sure -- but nothing that most people had the reasonable option of taking. That created a need for parking. Since huge profits could be made selling parking to the thousands of cars that needed it, there wasn't much economic incentive to use those parcels of land for much else. Hell, they turned the Armory into a ramp.
2. The riverfront was an industrial wasteland thirty years ago. The city hadn't invested million in cleaning it up and making it what it is today. Nobody was going to build condos around brownfields, railroad tracks and abandoned buildings.
3. ...by the time that those factors were mitigated, the Metrodome had pretty much ran its natural lifespan. The Hiawatha Line didn't open until 2005, and the Twins were already talking about a new stadium. The riverfront didn't reach a critical level of "cleaned-up-ness" until about the same time. If you put a new stadium there now, or even renovated the Metrodome, you would be much more likely to see new waves of development moving away from the river into Elliot Park and the periphery of Downtown. It has already begun to happen without that impetus.

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by knke0204

The fact of the matter is that most people are wanting their cake and to eat it as well. You got a stadium. A beautiful state of the art stadium. And people are crying about a roof? What? What do you have to be scared of? The random bad weather in early April when the Twins might be in town? I'm not even worried about the end of the season, weather really doesnt get bad til End of Oct anyway.

Wrong metaphor. What people want is a little icing on their cake.

Yeah, and as far as October weather? What the hell was that on the ground Saturday morning? Calendar doesn't say anything about "End of Oct" right now.

[Robert98]

I'm hearing a lot of complaints about outdoor baseball already. From friends and this forum. It hasn't even opened yet. "We need a roof." "We need outdoors." "We need a roof." Well people... in 25 years we can build one with a roof. Be patient.

[Bignellyxx]

Originally Posted by Slig

Yeah, most of your post made sense until you made the random bash of Cedar-Riverside. What did Cedar-Riverside ever do to you?

Lol sorry about the randomness of that comment. I was in New York the day before and took the train down to the city. While around Harlem I noticed that nothing there looked as bad as Cedar-Riverside does with it's unsightly tiles. That is all sorry.