Woodbury, Stillwater, Mahtomedi or WBL - which one to choose? (Minneapolis: for sale, houses)

[changemaker]

Hi all,

We are relocating to the St. Paul area for work. We have elementary school aged kids and are trying to decide on a a school district for our kids. We've visited schools in Woodbury, Stillwater, Mahtomedi and White Bear Lake. All seem good and I'm sure our kids would be happy in any of them. But looking for more feedback from people that may know more about the schools. Here are our impressions:

Woodbury would be a very easy choice for us. Looks like a haven for the kids and they would have lots of neighborhood kids to play with. Commute to St. Paul is under 30 minutes and lots of houses available. All the shopping we would need is right there. Downside - budget cuts happening and expected tax levy for next school year. Cutting languages from elementary schools, but music is saved (for now). HS principal investigation for misuse of funds?! Sketchy financial position of the district and possible redrawing of elementary school boundary lines due to Valley Crossing School purchase.

Stillwater has some nice neighborhoods but not as many houses available. Schools are good but not as highly ranked as others. District financials seem to be solid ... proposal to reconfigure schools to be grades 9-12 in HS, 6-8 MS and K-5 Elementary schools, will build new elementary school because of sale of Valley Crossing School - all will be tax neutral! Downside - No foreign languages in elementary schools, but does have band, orchestra and chorus. Further commute from St. Paul. Might have to drive a distance to do daily shopping.

Mahtomedi is highly ranked, but little diversity... Honestly, not much diversity in any of these schools so far, but Mahtomedi seemed to be the most privileged. Still within 30 minutes of St. Paul. Spanish starting in grade 4 and music education. Houses may hold their value more, based on school reputation. Downside - our impression of "snobbiness" when we visited. And little diversity.

White Bear Lake is in interesting choice for us because we really liked their International School. It offers an IB curriculum, which is attractive since our kids are coming from an IB school. They offer Spanish and music education - String orchestra starting in grade 5 next year. Most diverse school we looked at. And solid district financial. Downside - not highly ranked and not many housed available.

Hoping you can help with any feedback to support or dispute our initial impressions. We were only in each school for about an hour and is really hard to make a decision! Thanks for your thoughts!

[northsub]

My initial reaction is that I am a bit surprised by your impression of diversity between White Bear Lake and Woodbury. The South Washington County School District (Woodbury) has 71.9% white students while White Bear Lake School District is 79.5%. South Washington has a higher percentage of students in every ethnic group other than white according to the data I'm looking at (from the Minnesota Department of Education website). Matoska International in White Bear Lake is 79.6% white. For reference, Stillwater School District is 86.2% white and Mahtomedi School District is 88.2% white. Also, the most white elementary school in the South Washington district is Grey Cloud at 82.8% white. But, there are also elementary schools like Woodbury Elementary at 55.3% white. In the White Bear Lake district there are elementary schools like Willow Lane at 51.0% white and Vadnais Heights at 62.3% white.

The higher diversity in Woodbury than White Bear Lake is also supported by census data. In 2010, White Bear Lake (the city) was 90.1% white, White Bear Township was 94.5% white, Woodbury was 81.4% white, Stillwater 95.1% white, and Mahtomedi 94.2% white.

There's certainly more that goes into your decision than diversity of schools, but it seems to me that your information about the relative diversity of schools is incorrect.

[Hotfeet]

I've never had the impression that Mahtomedi was snobby, but I'm not sure where you visited. If you drive through Willernie, which is surrounded by Mahtomedi and encompassed by their school district, I think you might find it hard to believe that hardly anyone in that area could look down on others.

Mahtomedi has some areas with newer suburban housing as well as older areas with smaller homes (yet nice large lots). I like the fact that they have easy access to the 694 loop. One downside is that you would need to travel to WB or Oakdale at a minimum for a larger grocery store.

What is your housing budget and are you looking for city or a more rural suburban area? I like Lake Elmo -- it has good elementary schools and the upper grades feed into Stillwater. I do like the larger school district of WBL that has the ability to offer more choices in courses but as you mentioned their schools don't rate as high.

[BryaninMSP]

A good friend used to work for the White Bear district and had good things to say about the structure and leadership in the district. Within, the district, though, there is a pretty broad spectrum of good schools vs. underperforming schools — from Lakeaires Elementary (5/10) to Otter Lake (9/10).

Geographically, it also goes from Vadnais Heights (older homes) to Hugo (newer homes), so there should be plenty of housing choices. You didn't state your budget, but according to the MLS, there are 264 houses for sale in the district as of this morning. Median sales price of $177,250 so far this year.

South Washington Schools: 369 actives, $235,000 median
Stillwater Schools: 346 actives, $296,675 median
Mahtomedi: 75 actives, $389,460 median

There are also IB schools in St. Louis Park and within Minneapolis and St. Paul. On the east side of St. Paul, though, I think WBL might be the only one.

[changemaker]

Thanks for your feedback. A lot of my information is from our relocation consultant, and I'm not sure how accurate the information is. All your comments are really helpful and very much appreciated!

For diversity, I was speaking both about racial and economic diversity. In White Bear Lake, we looked specifically at Matoska International School. MN Report Card reports 25% of kids are on the free/reduced lunch program. OH Anderson (Mahtomedi) was 10%. Liberty Ridge (Woodbury) and Rutherford (Stillwater) were both at 7%. This leads me to assume that Matoska has the most economic diversity.

I was told that Liberty Ridge's (Wdby) 72% white was in large part due to expats working at companies like 3M. While the diversity at WBL Matoska Int'l (80% white) was more broad. And OH Anderson (Mht) and Rutherford (Stlw) were both at 90%. These are just for the elementary schools and haven't even begun to look at the MS and HS numbers. Definitely not going to let diversity statistics drive our decision, but was good to have the facts. And as NORTHSUB mentioned, diversity across elementary schools range within the district.

For housing, we have a wide budget. We are looking for a house in the 400-700K budget. Move-in ready. Not necessarily new construction, but updated. Worried that if we had to move again, a new construction home won't hold its value. Neighborhood and schools are most important to us. Also access to community pool/Lifetime fitness and local shopping. We'd shop some at smaller stores, but access to larger supermarkets and Target would help!

If anyone has recommendations on neighborhoods in these school districts, please let us know. We have a trip coming up in April and trying to narrow down our housing search. And I'll check out Willernie in Mahtomedi! Maybe our "snobby" impression was off-base and will give it another visit. We want to stay on the East side of St. Paul because of commute times, but we did visit St. Louis Park and seemed nice, just not for us.

Thank you!

[suburban mom04]

I live in the White Bear district, grew up in the South Washington County district, and work in a different (not mentioned) district...so I think I know a bit about these schools

Mahtomedi is consistently ranked as one of the top schools, but so much of that is based on test scores but so much to do with test scores, I feel, has to do with socio-economic status so I don't but to much weight in that. Woodbury schools, yes, much of the "diversity" is from 3M engineers etc. kids....not that that is all a bad thing (some of them are my friends, lol) but it is a different type of diversity.

We have been really happy with the White Bear district. The superintendent is very proactive. Diversity is hugely related to location in the district (north is less so, south is more so). If you are interested in IB education, also check into the middle schools, they recently went IB as well! With your budget, although I haven't looked, I would think you could find a great house. Ask about transportation to Matoska from other areas of the district. We live in the northern part of the district (Oneka area) but have some kids in our neighborhood who go to Matoska as a school of choice. I am not sure if they get district transportation or not.....that might really open up you search area if they do! The district I work in allows district transportation to schools outside of your home school, but I'm not sure what the WB policy would be.

[tjasse]

Is there a reason you are not considering Shoreview, and Mound's View high school?

[suburban mom04]

Found some more time, so a couple more thoughts on the WBL area :
Similar to BryaninMSP, I have a friend who previously worked in administration in Stillwater and HATED her job and now works in White Bear and LOVES it. I'm not sure what exactly that says about the way the districts are run, but it seems like a good thing that WBL has happy employees.

As for shopping and other community amenities. White Bear has both a Lifetime fitness and a very nice YMCA. There is a Target and SuperWalmart in Vadnais Heights. There is a Cub grocery store on 96 in White Bear Township. Downtown White Bear has mostly restaurants, smaller boutiques etc. There is a Kowalski's (smaller regional higher quality grocery story) near downtown WBL. There is a big movie theater in White Bear Township. White Bear is just north of Maplewood. Maplewood would not be my first choice of places to live, but there is lots of shopping. Maplewood Mall is a bit worn down but it has Kohl's, JCPenney etc. WBL area does not though have nearly the shopping etc. that Woodbury does obviously.

Hope that helps a little. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

[suburban mom04]

from the district website
Individual School Boundary Maps
Notes: Matoska International is a district-wide International Baccalaureate World School. All students attend both WLBAHS campuses. North Campus serves students in grades 9 & 10. South Campus serves students in grades 11 & 12.

So I would think this would mean you can live any where in the district and get transportation to Matoska. So you might want to add to your home search of locations not just WB city but also White Bear Township, Vadnais Heights, Gem Lake, parts of North Oaks, much of Hugo etc.

[suburban mom04]

Here is a school district (WBL) wide search in your stated price range

Listing Search Results