Give us 10 reasons NOT to move to the Minneapolis/St.Paul metro (Shoreview: best city, for sale)

[intmd8r]

Originally Posted by HKB

I've lived in MN all my life, and every year the winters get harder to deal with. I loved it as a kid (hockey, sledding, snow forts, etc...). I was indifferent to it in my teens and early 20's when I had relatively few responsibilities. After college it started becoming a tolerable nuisance (commuting to work during bad weather). Now, in my early/mid 30's as a homeowner and father to a toddler and an infant, I've officially come to despise winter. Shoveling snow and clearing ice is getting old real fast, and getting the kids bundled up and into their car seats is a major hassle... to the point where we rarely take them out unless we have to.

I couldn't agree more with this. I've never actually enjoyed the winters here, because I'm a freeze-baby. But now that we have a toddler, it's downright unacceptable living here what with the bundling and the car seat, etc. Ugh!!!

Of course, having lived in the desert for the last 11 years makes this seem much worse, too...

[uptown_urbanist]

We lived in LA with our then-baby for the first 15 months of his life, and yeah, it was MUCH easier on the clothing front! That was definitely a major plus. On the other hand, the public schools in the Twin Cities are much better (overall) and cost of living is much lower, so the hassles of a few years of snowsuits are worth it in the long run.

[Camden Northsider]

1. The people here are TOO nice.
2. Reasonable, well-thought out taxes make the quality of life almost TOO good in many areas here.
3. Wages at times are TOO high in some industries comparative to other metro areas.
4. Housing is ocassionally TOO affordable for people that really want to flaunt their status.
5. It's TOO difficult to choose which school to send your kid to because so many are TOO good.
6. The 4 seasons, parks, and lakes make for TOO many outdoorsy activities to have to do throughout the year.
7. If you choose to live in a far-out suburb, it might take a while to get to work!
8. Because the metro is a big regional hub, it's not very close to other big regional hubs!
9. If you're not familiar with the globe/latitute and longitude/basic geography, it might come as a real shocker that you have to take planes to get to warmer climates quickly during the wintertime!!
10. If you haven't figured out my biggest gripe yet, it's that people will complain about absolutely anything and everything no matter where you go!!!

That isn't to say there aren't areas for improvement (I agreed with most of Uptown's comments), and I don't mean to downplay some serious issues- some of the more disturbing ones include some big racial/class disparities that can be found here, including some negative trends in the criminal justice system (which are fairly similar to natl trends, but represent more of a paradox here in MN). But what most people complain about here is pretty comical. By the way, did you know that it gets cold for about 3 months every year here?

[knke0204]

As I have been reading these replies, and even after thinking while making my own list, I find this really interesting. If you look at some of the most common reasons why NOT to live in TCs, they tend to be the same struggles that are common in almost every major metro in the United States- Traffic, Weather, Suburbs...Just reinforces my belief that if MSP had more tolerable weather, it would be one of the biggest metros in the US. Then again, more people would probably be here to worsen the place- For the Twin Cities, it's quality over quanity.

[StilltheSame]

Originally Posted by knke0204

Just reinforces my belief that if MSP had more tolerable weather, it would be one of the biggest metros in the US. Then again, more people would probably be here to worsen the place- For the Twin Cities, it's quality over quanity.

So very true. I think the weather preserves the outstanding quality of life.

[intmd8r]

Originally Posted by knke0204

Just reinforces my belief that if MSP had more tolerable weather, it would be one of the biggest metros in the US. Then again, more people would probably be here to worsen the place- For the Twin Cities, it's quality over quanity.

I absolutely agree with this. It is a fabulous place to live, if you can take the winters. Some people have no problem with them at all, but others of us find it really hard and just not worth it, unfortunately. Of course, I have a sinus condition that puts me in A LOT of pain during the winter months, so it's not just the cold for us.

The one thing that I find really interesting is how people talk about the cheap housing here. I find it to be so much more expensive than so many other places in the country. That applies to both rent and purchasing.

We moved back here from Phoenix and were stunned at how expensive the homes were. We're now moving to Austin and are delighted at how much more our dollar will get us. Yet I consistently see people talking about the housing prices here as a positive, not a negative...

Maybe a lot of people are coming from the east coast where the housing is just outlandish?

[StilltheSame]

Originally Posted by intmd8r

The one thing that I find really interesting is how people talk about the cheap housing here. I find it to be so much more expensive than so many other places in the country. That applies to both rent and purchasing.

Yet I consistently see people talking about the housing prices here as a positive, not a negative...

Maybe a lot of people are coming from the east coast where the housing is just outlandish?

I completely agree. We were just discussing with friends how the low end is more expensive here, but then once you start hitting the mid to high end you get so much more options for locations and house than on the east coast. Its odd to me. You cant find anything reasonable near the cities for less than $400k (IMO) but if you can spend $600 - youre in good shape. High starting points here. I do not understand categorizing housing as inexpensive here. It just isnt.

[uptown_urbanist]

I agree that the housing costs are all relative. We've spent time living on the east coast and in California, and by comparison homes in the Twin Cities are extremely affordable. Concerns about school districts don't come into play in the real estate market the way they did in those other places, either.

I suppose it also depends on what kind of housing one is looking for; I'm gathering that "reasonable" is pretty subjective. I've found plenty of decent houses listed for less than $200k in the Twin Cities; that amount would possibly get me a ramshackle one-bedroom "fixer" in a rough neighborhood with terrible schools in many of the places we've lived. Single family homes are more expensive in my favorite neighborhoods, but even there it's possible to get something nice for well under $400k. Many of my friends and relatives (and not just the ones with the high-paying jobs) in the Twin Cities were able to buy houses in their 20s, sometimes a year or two after college; to me, that's evidence of relatively affordable housing. A single family house with multiple bedrooms in a somewhat safe neighborhood with access to decent schools for less than $200k sounds downright cheap, or at least within the realm of reason for many families.

[HugeTon]

Originally Posted by intmd8r

I absolutely agree with this. It is a fabulous place to live, if you can take the winters. Some people have no problem with them at all, but others of us find it really hard and just not worth it, unfortunately. Of course, I have a sinus condition that puts me in A LOT of pain during the winter months, so it's not just the cold for us.

The one thing that I find really interesting is how people talk about the cheap housing here. I find it to be so much more expensive than so many other places in the country. That applies to both rent and purchasing.

We moved back here from Phoenix and were stunned at how expensive the homes were. We're now moving to Austin and are delighted at how much more our dollar will get us. Yet I consistently see people talking about the housing prices here as a positive, not a negative...

Maybe a lot of people are coming from the east coast where the housing is just outlandish?

Congrat on your move to Austin. I've heard lots of good things about that city, and you probably did too.

I completely agreed with you on housing here in Mpls. It's way too expensive period. Housing is overpriced here in Mpls IMO. Taxes are high too. I am too ready to explore other parts of the country to move to. I can't wait to leave this cold behind me for once and hopefully not returning back.

Others have argued that schooling is so much better here. So what....there are many many good schools around the country, not just in and around Mpls. It all depends on where you live and what school system you enroll your kids into. Even in Mpls not all the school districts are better. I would agree areas like Eden Praire, Minnetonka, Plymouth ect might have better schoold system, but places like Shakopee, Brooklyn Park, Brooklyn Center might not be so.

[uptown_urbanist]

I would agree that there are plenty of other nice places to live besides the Twin Cities; Minneapolis certainly isn't the only place around that has much to offer. The grass isn't always greener elsewhere, though. On the school thing, there are dramatic differences across the country. There are great schools all around the country, but in many metro areas school districts have a huge impact on housing prices. When we lived in LA we lived for a time in a district known for its good public schools; housing was through the roof expensive as a result, with similar houses going for drastically higher prices within the district than they did just a short distance away in less desirable school districts. You can argue that some districts in the Twin Cities are better than others, but for there are no districts that people with choices will avoid at almost all costs. (not that some people won't move to some places due to fears of schools, but there's not anywhere near the same pressure that you find in cities like DC or LA, to name two places where I've lived before). (and talk about expensive housing: a tiny two-bedroom cottage with a postage stamp yard that looked frozen in time c. 1950 was listed for $500k on our block and sold fairly quickly since it was such a "good" deal). So yeah, I think the public schools thing is HUGE; it's good for both those who have kids, as well as those who are worried about resale value of their home. I'm sure school district does make some difference in the real estate market in the Twin Cities, but I also don't believe it's anywhere near what you find in states or regions facing major public school meltdowns.

None of that is to say that the Twin Cities offer the cheapest housing in the country, or even among larger cities, as I realize that it doesn't. But it's also nowhere near the top, either, and middle class people can afford to buy a nice house in a safe neighborhood with quality schools. Obviously there's still demand for truly affordable housing for those who are living at poverty levels, but no one has said that the Twin Cities are perfect. Even on that front, though, even the worst Twin Cities neighborhoods aren't as bad as what you find in some parts of the country.

I think what it comes down to is that maybe half of the people on this board are going to look at Twin Cities real estate prices and think what a bargain! and the other half are going to say "oh, it's sooo expensive here." What camp an individual falls into is going to depend heavily on personal experience or expectation.