Has increasing ethnic diversity in MN affected Minnesota Nice?

[LM1]

Originally Posted by roneb

You seem very fond of huge generalizations that you call objective fact but can't actually support.

Actually, I can. If you want statistics, just say the word.

According to your view all the highly rated all black universities don't count for a serious attempt by African Americans to "better themselves internally". Martin Luther King Jr. apparently made no effort to better his people or the nation as a whole? What of the achievements of so many black men and women through U.S. history, from Frederick Douglas and Harriet Tubman on through to Colin Powell? Are these all meaningless to you?

I won't bother to ask if you "read" my post (I'm guessing just a cursory glance and then went straight on to the back-of-the-happymeal-box Black History month talking points, given the names you cited), but I do wonder if you comprehended it.

I even brought up the fact that blacks have made important and successful efforts to better their external condition, most notably in the civil rights era. Furthermore, I don't think that anyone would attempt to detract from the importance of HBCU's, but when examined against a relative threshold of achievement, they don't represent much. The real question is a collective cultural effort that would serve to raise their lot in this life- their "internal condition", which they've never undertaken.
Every other culture is expected to do this on their own accord, yet we tacitly acknowledge that blacks are "unable" to do this and as such, we must do it for them. A classic microcosm of this was the events leading up to and the summary aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

I don't happen to believe that blacks are "helpless" and "unable". I believe they can do whatever the hell they set their minds to do, but we can't do it for them (which is where you and I seem to diverge). Inside of every well intentioned "anti-racist" you will find a healthy dose of the mighty-whitey syndrome.

One reading your post would assume that you would be reluctant to hire a black employee with an MBA because you don't believe he/she will make an effort to better him/herself.

Only an idiot would make that assumption. If you read what I had written and as a result of your own comprehension, came to that conclusion, I absolutely shutter to think that you teach children for a living.

The single greatest predictor of success in the U.S. (and the world) is socio-economic status - not race.

And the single greatest predictor of socio-economic status *is* race whether it happens to fit into your own carefully contrived perfect world or not. And just to preempt the whitey blaming where it's all our fault that black culture is as it is- when you examine their own homelands, there's a direct corollary between the standard of living in any given African nation and the magnitude of their historical Caucasian presence and management. Basically, the countries that have had the least "outside" Colonial influence exhibit the lowest standard of living (particularly Somalia and Ethiopia- one which had only minimal colonial presence and the other being the only African nation to have absolutely none), while the versa remains true for nations that have been substantially managed by Europeans (South Africa being the most obvious example, which also has, far and away, the highest standard of living on the continent). As Europeans leave, the standard of living decreases (as we've seen so tragically in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, where the absence of Europeans caused mass starvations, a complete inability to farm etc)

Of course, even though this is an abject truth, people like you don't even let it enter your sphere of consideration, as it runs contrary to your delusional views on "equality", etc.

This is where the things our society has tagged as being "racist" finds a natural confluence with "reality" but we are expected to ignore it... and because of that, this is why these deep problems will never be solved. Because they're held liable by people who are completely unable to address reality, instead favoring their own la-la land ideas about life.

I hope to move to MN in the next few years, and I sure hope you represent the exception rather than the rule!

Don't worry. Most people in this state are just as "idealistic" as you are.

[Lillietta]

[I'd say the Jews probably take the #1 spot

I say Jews had it better than blacks in that they united with each other and could look toward each other for support which the blacks have never achieved for whatever reason. The Jews also took pride in the fact that they were The Chosen Ones. In any case, I don't think it's reasonable or beneficial to compare one suffering to another and determine who had/has it worse.

[Lillietta]

[ Anyway, LM1 said it better than I.

[pirate_lafitte]

The fact is MN has had to deal with people of a different race on a larger scale only recently. With any migration at all, there are problems. When the Irish came to the USA, some Irish men formed gangs. The same went for Italians. The same is happening with other ethnic groups.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by LM1

Actually, I can. If you want statistics, just say the word.



I won't bother to ask if you "read" my post (I'm guessing just a cursory glance and then went straight on to the back-of-the-happymeal-box Black History month talking points, given the names you cited), but I do wonder if you comprehended it.

I even brought up the fact that blacks have made important and successful efforts to better their external condition, most notably in the civil rights era. Furthermore, I don't think that anyone would attempt to detract from the importance of HBCU's, but when examined against a relative threshold of achievement, they don't represent much. The real question is a collective cultural effort that would serve to raise their lot in this life- their "internal condition", which they've never undertaken.
Every other culture is expected to do this on their own accord, yet we tacitly acknowledge that blacks are "unable" to do this and as such, we must do it for them. A classic microcosm of this was the events leading up to and the summary aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

I don't happen to believe that blacks are "helpless" and "unable". I believe they can do whatever the hell they set their minds to do, but we can't do it for them (which is where you and I seem to diverge). Inside of every well intentioned "anti-racist" you will find a healthy dose of the mighty-whitey syndrome.



Only an idiot would make that assumption. If you read what I had written and as a result of your own comprehension, came to that conclusion, I absolutely shutter to think that you teach children for a living.



And the single greatest predictor of socio-economic status *is* race whether it happens to fit into your own carefully contrived perfect world or not. And just to preempt the whitey blaming where it's all our fault that black culture is as it is- when you examine their own homelands, there's a direct corollary between the standard of living in any given African nation and the magnitude of their historical Caucasian presence and management. Basically, the countries that have had the least "outside" Colonial influence exhibit the lowest standard of living (particularly Somalia and Ethiopia- one which had only minimal colonial presence and the other being the only African nation to have absolutely none), while the versa remains true for nations that have been substantially managed by Europeans (South Africa being the most obvious example, which also has, far and away, the highest standard of living on the continent). As Europeans leave, the standard of living decreases (as we've seen so tragically in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, where the absence of Europeans caused mass starvations, a complete inability to farm etc)

Of course, even though this is an abject truth, people like you don't even let it enter your sphere of consideration, as it runs contrary to your delusional views on "equality", etc.

This is where the things our society has tagged as being "racist" finds a natural confluence with "reality" but we are expected to ignore it... and because of that, this is why these deep problems will never be solved. Because they're held liable by people who are completely unable to address reality, instead favoring their own la-la land ideas about life.


Don't worry. Most people in this state are just as "idealistic" as you are.

You speak of African nations getting poorer as Europeans leave and famines starting. To be honest, there was less starvation before colonialism began. Granted, there may have been a higher standard of living, but people in Africa were not dependent on anyone else until colonialism began. There was one thing African peoples didn't have before colonialism, dependence. It didn't matter if one had to forage in the desert, at least no one was taught to depend on anyone. Africans learned dependence during the colonial era. They were taught that Africans were inferior to Europeans and that they could not survive without Europeans. Well, many people believed it from the European point of view. What happened, when colonialism ended, government corrpution was worse than before and all because of dependence.

[Auntie Bob]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

What is MN nice? Is it a geniune niceness that comes from the heart or is it passive aggressive "make people feel good" type of nice that isn't always real? I prefer the genuine nice.

MN Nice is different things to different people I think. I totally disagree with the passive Agressive thing though. Mostly we just aren't overt in anything..not good things or bad things.
I think Minnesotans by and large are friendly and try to be helpful. MN Nice is kind of like, we'll try real hard not to offend you.
And yeah, I think we generally DO try to make people feel good. I suppose some could take that as a negative or feel it's not genuine but, I don't think we do that intentionally or see it that way.

People sometimes expect MN Nice to mean we'll welcome you to our home and hearth though and, I don't think that's necessarily accurate. Someone else said, we tend to keep people are arms length and I think that's pretty much how it is.
We basically aren't very emotional people and tend to deal with things on a 'fact' level as opposed to a 'feeling' level.
I think one indicator of MN Nice is the level of volunteerism in the state.

[golfgal]

This thread has lived it's life and is wandering away from the topic.