My thoughts on "Minnesota Nice"

[Jocelyneh]

Originally Posted by Guero

I don't know where you are hanging out that you are around Minnesotans that are burping and high-fiving each other and making fun of accents? Sports bars? Most Minnesotans I have had contact with like accents. We have a high percentage of foreign language speakers here.

I am well into my forties and have never seen random people making fun of accents, and the only thing approaching burping and celebrating it I've seen was when I was in college. Which can be expected of drunken frat boys in any US state. I am going to take some of these claims with a large dose of salt. Some of this stuff is really ringing hollow. If they are mimicking you, and it bothers you, tell them, else you are dancing on the borderlines of passive-aggressiveness yourself. Furthermore, accent mimicking is certainly not a MN only thing. I have had my accent made fun of or mimicked in LA, NYC, TX, and watched German and Canadian relatives of mine do it to each other. I don't understand why you shot me down about finding nicer friends, then went on to complain about them to me. Additionally, when I am around my relatives from Georgia for a day or two, I start to talk like them (with a drawl) without even realizing it. Food for thought (though probably not applicable in your situation).

I marvel at the judgmental attitudes displayed here which paint others as judgmental.

What I think I see here is a backlash against the marketing of Minnesota (whether the backlashers are conscious of it or not). Every state and country does it - comes up with these goofy slogans like Minnesota Nice, but it certainly doesn't mean people here think they are better than people from elsewhere. All it means it that some marketing firm got their fingers into the pie.

Let me ask - how is it that you know that these people you're interacting with are having feelings of inferiority? Are you assuming or have they expressed this? Sounds rather haughty to be honest, assuming a local culture feels inferior to you because of wheres your homeland happens to be. "Oh I am English, they must be intimidated by that!" Groan. In fact, that assumption sounds rather provincial, in and of itself. "People from my home country would never..." further reinforces your own provincial tendencies. Yeah, I'm sure soccer hoodlums would never burp and celebrate it!. Double groan.

I am going to bow out of this. This "People from here are like 'this'." stuff isn't even worth bandying about; it's so rooted in fear and the past, and such an obvious attempt to scapegoat on others because of personal unhappiness. I've seen this happen on other forums too. Likely homesick individuals finding some refuge in the tearing down of their current host community.

It's a shame.

I think that I've already noted the fact that I was equally guilty of judgementality. And perhaps you are right about the personal unhappiness that comes from living in another country and feeling like a fish out of water.

However, I like to believe (obviously I'm biased in my own favor - aren't we all) that I am not "tearing down" the host country, but simply highlighting some of the difficulties that living overseas brings to people on both sides of the equation. I have noted several times that the people are friendly and not malicious, but do come from their experiences and that I obviously do the same too, hence my equal guilt.

However, there are differences when it comes to accents. I will swear on my brother's memory that I have not experienced it in the UK personally from myself, friends, and family. However, the phenomenon exists; it's not unusal to hear UK comedians or others when in the pub mimic foreign accents for jokes. I guess I have been lucky not to have known those who would do this personally.

But, I did note that Minnesotans generally mimic because as you pointed out, they "like" accents, and I do tell them not to copy me. However, there is only so many times I can do this before the compliment wears thin, and I come across as someone with a chip on her shoulder. That's why I smile, because I know there's no malicious intention on people's part, and it's unfair to make others feel bad for what should be complimentary. How are nice Minnesotans supposed to know that it's the fifth time I've heard it tonight!? So yes, I have my motives for passive-aggression too.

As I said in a earlier post, and I stand by it, Minnesotans are much more friendly and welcoming than the English when new to the area. Yet, I've never had it happen in the other countries I've visited, but then perhaps other countries don't like the accent as much the locals here! Guess, I prefer the compliment if pushed.

Oh, to make it short. Burping was a comment that came up between overseas people who asked if I'd noticed it too, so I guess I'm not the only one. But I have admitted that I live in St. Cloud, and not the Twin Cities that I would assume is more culturally diverse and aware.

As for assuming inferiority, it is not the case. The following comments I've received are, "oh, you sound so sophisticated", "Europeans are so worldly", "you must be rich and high class", "British people are so intelligent", "you dress so much classier than Minnesotans." etc. Now, I'm sure I'll be accused of being arrogant, but these are not my words. I am a woman in her late 30s from a working class background who likes to be judged intelligent for content rather than accent. Yet, I am mature enough to know the difference between when a comment is said in a nice, open and firendly tone and when it is 'snippy', nasty, and unfriendly.

I am no psychologist, but I would like to assume that the latter comments come from people when they may feel inferior or intimidated, rather than assume that people are just nasty for nastiness' sake. Strange as it may seem, it's a nicer and more comforting thought.

Before I go, apologies if you were upset by my comments.

[Auntie Bob]

Originally Posted by Guero

You're right I suppose, which is probably why I am dishing out the grumpiness tonight.



As for the rest of what you said, I agree. Good words to live by.

I have to admit, I'm a little shocked that anyone with an obvious bias toward "liberals" would even consider moving to MN in the first place. It's not exactly like we've tried to keep that one a big, deep secret or anything.

[Jocelyneh]

I love liberals, and I believe Minnesota is one of the progressive states. I am also very liberal and progressive, so I'd push for free health care.

Oh, I'd never heard of Minnesota Nice before I came here, and I didn't realize the movie Fargo was set here.

I came with an open mind and I'm still trying to be that way, but I have my own UK values and experiences to battle!

[Auntie Bob]

Originally Posted by Jocelyneh

I love liberals, and I believe Minnesota is one of the progressive states. I am also very liberal and progressive, so I'd push for free health care.

Oh, I'd never heard of Minnesota Nice before I came here, and I didn't realize the movie Fargo was set here.

I came with an open mind and I'm still trying to be that way, but I have my own UK values and experiences to battle!

Well, from what I've heard from my online friends, what passes for Liberal in the US would more than likely be considered Conservative in the UK and other parts of the world.
I'd love to see free health care also.

PLEASE....do NOT judge Minnesota by the movie Fargo. Jeez.. Fargo is in N. Dakota for starters.
*Laffin* I have to admit, that was not my favorite movie.
I still think "How to Talk Minnesotan":by Howard Mohr is probably the closest thing to a realistic picture of who we are.

BTW....I think "Minnesota Nice" was invented by someone in the tourist industry, just to get people to venture this far north. But, then we got in the habit of sic'n the man-eating mosquitos on them so they'd leave us alone and... blew that theory right outta the water.

[Jocelyneh]

I know Fargo's in ND, been there, but if I remember correctly - it's been a while - it mostly took place in Brainerd.

Yep, my liberality is probably too progressive in comparison to most around me, but efforts towards it are noted for MN.

I don't judge people by media representations, rest assured, but I'll check out Mohr

[Auntie Bob]

Originally Posted by Jocelyneh

I know Fargo's in ND, been there, but if I remember correctly - it's been a while - it mostly took place in Brainerd.

Yep, my liberality is probably too progressive in comparison to most around me, but efforts towards it are noted for MN.

I don't judge people by media representations, rest assured, but I'll check out Mohr

I think so. I don't honestly remember a lot about it, other than I didn't like it much.
I just meant I couldn't understand why anyone would name a movie Fargo, if it was supposed to be about MN.

Well, the Mohr book is 'slightly' exaggerated but, if you already know people that could be happy hunting everyday, you'll probably get it.

BTW....I think you better be careful. You are already starting to apologize for having differing views from someone else. I think MN is starting to wear off on you. LOL
(just teasing)

[Guero]

Originally Posted by Jocelyneh

I think that I've already noted the fact that I was equally guilty of judgementality. And perhaps you are right about the personal unhappiness that comes from living in another country and feeling like a fish out of water.

However, I like to believe (obviously I'm biased in my own favor - aren't we all) that I am not "tearing down" the host country, but simply highlighting some of the difficulties that living overseas brings to people on both sides of the equation. I have noted several times that the people are friendly and not malicious, but do come from their experiences and that I obviously do the same too, hence my equal guilt.

However, there are differences when it comes to accents. I will swear on my brother's memory that I have not experienced it in the UK personally from myself, friends, and family. However, the phenomenon exists; it's not unusal to hear UK comedians or others when in the pub mimic foreign accents for jokes. I guess I have been lucky not to have known those who would do this personally.

But, I did note that Minnesotans generally mimic because as you pointed out, they "like" accents, and I do tell them not to copy me. However, there is only so many times I can do this before the compliment wears thin, and I come across as someone with a chip on her shoulder. That's why I smile, because I know there's no malicious intention on people's part, and it's unfair to make others feel bad for what should be complimentary. How are nice Minnesotans supposed to know that it's the fifth time I've heard it tonight!? So yes, I have my motives for passive-aggression too.

As I said in a earlier post, and I stand by it, Minnesotans are much more friendly and welcoming than the English when new to the area. Yet, I've never had it happen in the other countries I've visited, but then perhaps other countries don't like the accent as much the locals here! Guess, I prefer the compliment if pushed.

Oh, to make it short. Burping was a comment that came up between overseas people who asked if I'd noticed it too, so I guess I'm not the only one. But I have admitted that I live in St. Cloud, and not the Twin Cities that I would assume is more culturally diverse and aware.

As for assuming inferiority, it is not the case. The following comments I've received are, "oh, you sound so sophisticated", "Europeans are so worldly", "you must be rich and high class", "British people are so intelligent", "you dress so much classier than Minnesotans." etc. Now, I'm sure I'll be accused of being arrogant, but these are not my words. I am a woman in her late 30s from a working class background who likes to be judged intelligent for content rather than accent. Yet, I am mature enough to know the difference between when a comment is said in a nice, open and firendly tone and when it is 'snippy', nasty, and unfriendly.

I am no psychologist, but I would like to assume that the latter comments come from people when they may feel inferior or intimidated, rather than assume that people are just nasty for nastiness' sake. Strange as it may seem, it's a nicer and more comforting thought.

Before I go, apologies if you were upset by my comments.

Bites lip because he said he wasn't going to reply. Well, that was more directed towards my bickering with Kim anyways. So if you'll forgive my inconsistency....

You have been a whole lot more reasonable and open-minded. I thank you for that and I thank you for explaining in more detail your point of view.

I apologize for being snarky.

I will say that I would have had the same opinion to share had any other state, province, county or country been the target.

It's not easy to transplant to anywhere, especially overseas. In the early 80's, I was transplanted from the Twin Cities to El Paso, TX, and what a culture shock that was, especially for a just turned adult person whose second language is German, not Spanish. Talk about hard to blend in. I tried again and again though, shrugged off the rebuffs and eventually made a happy place for myself to be. By the way hehe, many El Paseno friends would ask me to say certain words, because of my MN accent, and then giggle. Then there was when I was out in Irvine California not too long ago, and I asked a concierge for directions. Before he answered he said, "You're from MN." I was a bit taken aback because no one had ever identified me like that before, and I have traveled all over this country - some 42 odd states. He gave me directions and did it with his best MN accent. The bastard. I laughed, he laughed, and his co-worker threw in a couple of "uff das" and "you betchas" for good measure.

I think Bob said it best when he said "bloom where you're planted" and that's what I tried to do during my tenure in the desert. I'd like to think that I succeeded.

[Guero]

Originally Posted by Auntie Bob

I think so. I don't honestly remember a lot about it, other than I didn't like it much.
I just meant I couldn't understand why anyone would name a movie Fargo, if it was supposed to be about MN.

Well, the Mohr book is 'slightly' exaggerated but, if you already know people that could be happy hunting everyday, you'll probably get it.

BTW....I think you better be careful. You are already starting to apologize for having differing views from someone else. I think MN is starting to wear off on you. LOL
(just teasing)

Yeah, that's always bugged me about Fargo. Geez, the Coens are from here.