State shutdown -- thousands of Minnesotans will lose their jobs (paid, center)

[freezengirl]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

First off, we didn't hear about the 'lights on' provision/proposal until the final hour (after it was clear a shutdown was going to happen), and you act like the Republicans have been acting very fair-minded/even-handed in the whole negotations process which is the furthest thing from the truth. Dayton continuously tried to compromise, and continued giving concessions to the Republican party, but they were much less concerned about actually passing a sustainable budget as they were about (a) not raising any taxes but instead shifting around burdens in a very unsustainable fashion (that would have resulted in extreme increases in local/property taxes), and (b) passing previously-vetoed lesiglation that had nothing to do with the budget but were Republican hotbutton issues. They clearly were not concerned in the least about passing a budget on time, and what the hell would the incentive be for Pawlenty to sign a 'lights on' proposal? We see how little a lack of urgency there is with one the most severe shutdown in state history, how much incentive to pass a budget would the Republicans have if the lights were on considering they seemingly have no concerns about the current shutdown itself?

Bravo!

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

First off, we didn't hear about the 'lights on' provision/proposal until the final hour (after it was clear a shutdown was going to happen), and you act like the Republicans have been acting very fair-minded/even-handed in the whole negotations process which is the furthest thing from the truth. Dayton continuously tried to compromise, and continued giving concessions to the Republican party, but they were much less concerned about actually passing a sustainable budget as they were about (a) not raising any taxes but instead shifting around burdens in a very unsustainable fashion (that would have resulted in extreme increases in local/property taxes), and (b) passing previously-vetoed lesiglation that had nothing to do with the budget but were Republican hotbutton issues. They clearly were not concerned in the least about passing a budget on time, and what the hell would the incentive be for Pawlenty to sign a 'lights on' proposal? We see how little a lack of urgency there is with one the most severe shutdown in state history, how much incentive to pass a budget would the Republicans have if the lights were on considering they seemingly have no concerns about the current shutdown itself?

So are you challenging any of my facts? Or is it just that you bought the Strib's spin?

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by southernsmoke

So are you challenging any of my facts? Or is it just that you bought the Strib's spin?

You wrote that "Dayton had the opportunity (on his desk to sign) to avoid most of this shutdown by authorizing spending that everybody agrees on, and he decided to shut the state down instead"- key words here "everybody agrees on"- do you really think there was time for them all to come to an agreement on anything with this proposal in the 9th hour? They haven't agreed on anything the entire session, to think that all of a sudden in the final hour they would all start working together/compromising is proposterous. And if the Republicans were so concerned about the prospect of a shutdown (and so willing to find things that 'everyone agrees on' lol), why are they trying to blockade/reverse any court decisions that are being made about what qualifies as 'essential services'? This proposal was nothing less than political maneuvering- they knew nothing would get signed and no lights would be kept on, they just wanted to try and save whatever face they might still have with constituents- great job in buying it hook, line, and sinker.

And regarding the "Strib spin" that you reference- I'm not sure what your point and/or argument is here, or what 'spin' the Strib is putting on anything (granted, I haven't read any articles in the past week or so). For some of us, southernsmoke, this isn't just a game of politics- it actually has a real impact on people's lives, including my own. Unfortunately, you seem too immature or unable to develop any of your own original thoughts to be able to comprehend this.

[golfgal]

Better stock up on your Miller brands of beer if that is your beer of choice. They have to start pulling their stock from the shelves because they didn't get their branding registered in time (or they did but the state didn't process it in time). Many bars and liquor stores will be closing (temporarily hopefully) because they can't get their liquor license renewed. Our kids have several friends that were supposed to be taking their drivers tests over the past couple weeks and can't. All of these little things that people don't realize cost the state MONEY to do.

[Sarimn00]

I'm waiting for it to dawn on all the hunters that if this crap doesn't get figured out soon, there will be no hunting season for anything this year. I heard from some hunters that it needs to be figured out by July 31st, but everyone seems kind of confused on all the facts.

I think all the politicians from both sides need to grow up and get to work. This is getting ridiculous.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

You wrote that "Dayton had the opportunity (on his desk to sign) to avoid most of this shutdown by authorizing spending that everybody agrees on, and he decided to shut the state down instead"- key words here "everybody agrees on"- do you really think there was time for them all to come to an agreement on anything with this proposal in the 9th hour? They haven't agreed on anything the entire session, to think that all of a sudden in the final hour they would all start working together/compromising is proposterous. And if the Republicans were so concerned about the prospect of a shutdown (and so willing to find things that 'everyone agrees on' lol), why are they trying to blockade/reverse any court decisions that are being made about what qualifies as 'essential services'? This proposal was nothing less than political maneuvering- they knew nothing would get signed and no lights would be kept on, they just wanted to try and save whatever face they might still have with constituents- great job in buying it hook, line, and sinker.

And regarding the "Strib spin" that you reference- I'm not sure what your point and/or argument is here, or what 'spin' the Strib is putting on anything (granted, I haven't read any articles in the past week or so). For some of us, southernsmoke, this isn't just a game of politics- it actually has a real impact on people's lives, including my own. Unfortunately, you seem too immature or unable to develop any of your own original thoughts to be able to comprehend this.

What don't you understand about "things everyone agrees on"? That is true, but all you can say is that there is no way they agree about anything. I asked if you disputed my facts (about what actually happened--not about who are the bad guys), and your answer was essentially, "probably so, because it is impossible for Republicans to do anything with good motives, but I don't really know what I'm talking about."

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by southernsmoke

So are you challenging any of my facts? Or is it just that you bought the Strib's spin?

I really don't know what vendetta you have against the Strib, but I've never had a problem with their so-called spin during my time reading it over the years (and during that time, I've held different political positions). The Strib obviously has some bias, but it's individualized with each writer, so there is no official stance, and no side has been painted in a good light during this shutdown. If your reasoning for why some people aren't gung-ho with the Republican legislature is that we're all hypnotized by the big, bad, pinko-commie agenda of the Red Star Tribune, you're probably, well...wrong.

[audadvnc]

Propagandists like SS throw around facile phrases like "everybody agrees" when quite the opposite is true. It's part of their goal to poison the discussion. Show them the respect they deserve.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

Propagandists like SS throw around facile phrases like "everybody agrees" when quite the opposite is true. It's part of their goal to poison the discussion.

Isn't that exactly what you just did? You suggested that the truth is the opposite of everybody agrees with southernsmoke, in other words, that everybody agrees with you. Does that make you a propagandist with the goal of poisoning the discussion?

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

Propagandists like SS throw around facile phrases like "everybody agrees" when quite the opposite is true. It's part of their goal to poison the discussion. Show them the respect they deserve.

What are you even talking about? Are you disagreeing with me (about "everybody agreeing" about most line items)? Or are you just taking a jab at me?