From Green Bay, WI to Minneapolis metro (St. Paul, Bloomington: middle-class, crime)

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by golfgal

That 49% graduation rate for the Minneapolis schools just screams "quality" to me...

The overall rate is meaningless since for some schools that are disproportionately black, poor, and/ or non native English speakers, the rate is extremely low, while the rate at the schools in the neighborhoods being discussed is near 100%. Of course, I'm not telling you anything you didn't know before you made your inflammatory comment, since we've all been up and down this road together many, many times, right, old friend?

[northsub]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

The overall rate is meaningless since for some schools that are disproportionately black, poor, and/ or non native English speakers, the rate is extremely low, while the rate at the schools in the neighborhoods being discussed is near 100%. Of course, I'm not telling you anything you didn't know before you made your inflammatory comment, since we've all been up and down this road together many, many times, right, old friend?

The state of Minnesota seems to think the graduation rate at Southwest High School was less than 80% in 2011:
Data for Parents and Educators

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

The overall rate is meaningless since for some schools that are disproportionately black, poor, and/ or non native English speakers, the rate is extremely low, while the rate at the schools in the neighborhoods being discussed is near 100%. Of course, I'm not telling you anything you didn't know before you made your inflammatory comment, since we've all been up and down this road together many, many times, right, old friend?

The job of the school is to educate all students. The Minneapolis schools are not doing that in LARGE numbers. SW does not have 100% graduation rate, not even close and yes, there are a handful of kids that do just fine there, however, what about the other 90% of students, who, taking out that top 10% graduate at a rate closer to 40%-that is just SAD, in MN, in 2012...

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by northsub

The state of Minnesota seems to think the graduation rate at Southwest High School was less than 80% in 2011:
Data for Parents and Educators

Those numbers are flawed because they count transfers out of a school as a drop out. Corrected for that, the graduation rate at Southwest is 97%.

Southwest High School - Southwest Minneapolis, MN Patch

[ozzie679]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Those numbers are flawed because they count transfers out of a school as a drop out. Corrected for that, the graduation rate at Southwest is 97%.

Southwest High School - Southwest Minneapolis, MN Patch

Do Mpls Schools include "alternative schools" in their overall graduation rate?

[northsub]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Those numbers are flawed because they count transfers out of a school as a drop out. Corrected for that, the graduation rate at Southwest is 97%.

Southwest High School - Southwest Minneapolis, MN Patch

Actually they are not counting transfers as dropouts.

The state data are taking [number of graduates]/[(number of 9th graders 4 years prior)-(number of students who transfer out)+(number of students who transfer in).

From the webpage I linked (you need to select graduation rate statistics first though):

"The 4-Year Graduation Rate shows the percentage of students graduating from high school within four years after they enrolled in grade nine. To calculate this rate, we identify all students who entered ninth grade four years ago, add students who moved into the district, and subtract students who moved away. This adjusted number represents students who are eligible to graduate. The actual Graduation Rate is calculated by dividing the number of students who actually graduated by the number eligible to graduate and expressing the result as a percentage. Some students take an additional year or two to meet graduation requirements. They are included in the 5-Year or 6-Year rates, as appropriate. "

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by golfgal

The job of the school is to educate all students. The Minneapolis schools are not doing that in LARGE numbers. SW does not have 100% graduation rate, not even close and yes, there are a handful of kids that do just fine there, however, what about the other 90% of students, who, taking out that top 10% graduate at a rate closer to 40%-that is just SAD, in MN, in 2012...

Let's just make sure the OP knows where you're coming from. Unless I'm wrong, you've never been to Southwest, don't know any Southwest students, live on the other side of the metro area, and have a consistent habit of spewing misinformation about this particular school. Can't know why, but guess that it might be a bit of school competitiveness, given that Southwest gets a lot of press for being one of the top public schools in the state, while most people have never heard of, say, Rosemount High School? (which I'm sure is also an excellent school. I think it's fully possible for a metro area to have MULTIPLE good schools!)

I have personal experience with Southwest. I know current teachers and current students, and was (once upon a time) a Southwest student myself. It's far more than a "handful" who are doing well -- by any metric. There's simply no logical way anyone can realistically suggest that a student attending Southwest will not have access to a high-quality education and an intellectually stimulating, academically supportive environment, complete with a vast array of advanced academic courses (including access to the IB program, which is, I think, far superior to AP, although there are also AP courses available).

I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that Southwest is a poor school. That said, it's certainly not the ONLY excellent school in the metro area, and the OP will have lots of great choices. But, given that she has no interest in subdivisions in the boonies, obviously somewhere like District 196 is NOT going to be a good choice for her family, while somewhere like, say, Southwest Minneapolis, more appropriately fits the bill. I'm sure there are equally good schools in or around St. Paul, too, but I'm not as familiar with that area.

As far as that stats above, I'd like to know the source of the data.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by northsub

Actually they are not counting transfers as dropouts.

The state data are taking [number of graduates]/[(number of 9th graders 4 years prior)-(number of students who transfer out)+(number of students who transfer in).

From the webpage I linked (you need to select graduation rate statistics first though):

"The 4-Year Graduation Rate shows the percentage of students graduating from high school within four years after they enrolled in grade nine. To calculate this rate, we identify all students who entered ninth grade four years ago, add students who moved into the district, and subtract students who moved away. This adjusted number represents students who are eligible to graduate. The actual Graduation Rate is calculated by dividing the number of students who actually graduated by the number eligible to graduate and expressing the result as a percentage. Some students take an additional year or two to meet graduation requirements. They are included in the 5-Year or 6-Year rates, as appropriate. "

I stand corrected with respect to the way transfers are handled in these numbers.

The numbers you cite are the 4-year graduation rates, which seem to have been widely criticized as understating the actual graduation results. Southwest's 4-year rate of 80% compares very favorably to the overall state average of 77%. I do note that the 4-year graduation rate for the Rosemount/ Apple Valley/ Eagen district is less than 86%, and I am sure that we would all agree that this does not appropriately reflect the success in that district in terms of graduating its students.

http://www.startribune.com/local/min...129171263.html

I don't know enough about education to further critique the various statistical approaches, but I will point out that the graduation rate at Southwest as reported by the MPS was 99% in 2011. Clearly, this is very complex topic, and the different statistical approaches produce some very different results.

High Schools

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by northsub

The state of Minnesota seems to think the graduation rate at Southwest High School was less than 80% in 2011:
Data for Parents and Educators

If I'm reading that right, the stats also only show that 5 students actually dropped out. The status of 29 students was unknown, 57 students were listed as "continuing," and the remaining 358 graduated in the standard time. The stats also showed that the dropout rate of 1.1% was lower than the state average of 4.8%. (the "continuing" was also lower than average; the "unknown" slightly higher.)

And for the other poster who was decrying Southwest's horrendous dropout rate, for what it's worth, Rosemount High School had 7 drop-outs for the same period (1.5%), 50 students (10.4%) continuing, 416 (86.7%) graduating, and 7 (1.5%) unknown.

In other words, those numbers don't look all so different, and 5 high school drop-outs (in a school that DOES after, all, serve a diverse urban district) doesn't exactly suggest that the the OP need be scared that her kid will be surrounded by academic deadbeats if she sends her kid the school. For that matter, I don't know the stats, but I'm guessing more than 5 graduates that year went to Ivy League colleges, if worried about the "contamination" factor (something that often comes up in these debates).

[northsub]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

If I'm reading that right, the stats also only show that 5 students actually dropped out. The status of 29 students was unknown, 57 students were listed as "continuing," and the remaining 358 graduated in the standard time. The stats also showed that the dropout rate of 1.1% was lower than the state average of 4.8%. (the "continuing" was also lower than average; the "unknown" slightly higher.)

And for the other poster who was decrying Southwest's horrendous dropout rate, for what it's worth, Rosemount High School had 7 drop-outs for the same period (1.5%), 50 students (10.4%) continuing, 416 (86.7%) graduating, and 7 (1.5%) unknown.

In other words, those numbers don't look all so different, and 5 high school drop-outs (in a school that DOES after, all, serve a diverse urban district) doesn't exactly suggest that the the OP need be scared that her kid will be surrounded by academic deadbeats if she sends her kid the school. For that matter, I don't know the stats, but I'm guessing more than 5 graduates that year went to Ivy League colleges, if worried about the "contamination" factor (something that often comes up in these debates).

I'm reading the "unknown" category to mean that the student didn't graduate and it is not known if they are continuing or not. Perhaps a cause for this is a student not formally dropping out (I'm guessing there's some paperwork involved).

Incidentally, the way graduation rates are calculated seems a bit odd. If a student transfers from your school to another school and then drops out, that student doesn't count as a drop out for the original school at all. So, as a district you could just funnel students in danger of dropping out to alternative/magnet schools (like Wellstone International which has a 6-year graduation rate of 20.3% or Broadway Arts & Tech at 19.4%). Then, the dropout numbers at the "normal" schools look better than they really are. I guess I'd like to see how many students transferred in/out as well.

Also, I don't think I'd trust the Minneapolis School District's numbers over the state numbers. The Minneapolis School District has a lot of reason to portray the numbers in as positive a light as possible (by not counting certain groups of students or whatever they are doing). Note that the Minneapolis School District doesn't tell you what their number actually means.

Further, comparing Southwest to the state as a whole or Rosemount doesn't make a lot of sense if you're trying to argue that Southwest is one of the best high schools in the state. Try comparing to Edina or Wayzata or Mounds View.

I'm also not sure I buy that Southwest is all that diverse. The school districts of Fridley, Roseville, and Bloomington (and presumably others) all have lower percentages of white students for instance.