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Old 11-06-2007, 04:02 PM
Location: Princeton, New Jersey
453 posts, read 769,061 times
Reputation: 719


Originally Posted by cardcr View Post
Number one, I said the bars that the smokers went to were the cool bars. Smoking did not make them cool. And two, If you read all the posts you will see I have never smoked. I respect others people RIGHT to smoke. If I go in a bar and it is a smoking one that's my problem no one else's.
You don't drink? You want to ban that? You know it's bad for you! You know they have peanuts at the bar! Are you allergic?
Nice! That's what gets me about this situation. I'm not a smoker but I am responsible enough (and understand the Constitution enough) that it's my problem if I am breathing second hand smoke in a bar. Non smokers can go elsewhere if it bothers them. Smoking is legal. Perhaps in a restaurant I could understand having a closed room (not necessarily with all the ventilation requirements and either for smoking or non-smoking customers), but in a bar? Especially a bar which had mostly a smoking clientèle? That's wrong.

If the government was actually concerned about people's health they'd just ban cigarettes. But no, they don't do that. Why? Money. And that's why casinos are still allowed to have smoking when small mom-and-pop's can not. The government should have paid for the bars below a certain income/resource level to get the ventilated rooms. It's not fair to take away income because of some ridiculous, rights-infringing, health movement. Especially when, like all health movements, the government does absolutely NOTHING to prohibit the cause of the health problem...

Heck, the government should be encouraging more people to smoke and pay 60 bucks a carton. Maybe we'd have a chance of paying back China then! ;-)

Old 11-20-2007, 08:18 PM
21 posts, read 57,726 times
Reputation: 13
Default MinneSOTa Smoking Ban

The Legislature in it's infinite wisdom was led by the nose by the "Anti-smoking" crowd to pass this Smoking Ban to the determent of many small bars and cafes. While I do not live near the border areas I can only say I have read that bars and resturaunts in Superior Wisconsin have been enjoying major growth in sales even before Oct. 1st with the "Ban" in Duluth.

Personally we have lived near a reservation with a casino for nearly ten years and only been in it about three times before the "Smoking Ban" went into effect, it is now our choice of places to go for dining, drinking ( limited ) and yes even a little gambling. Their food is as good as any other local eatery and cheaper too, no charge for soft drinks or coffee!! While there are many smokers in the casino we find the clouds of smoke and smell to be non-existent due to their ventelation system

While I do feel for the local businesses who no longer get my $60.00 to $100.00 per week they will just have to thank their legislators for their losses, or close up like one local cafe did ( the owner and all the help smoked, and they even tore the building down therefore causing the local community to lose not only the jobs but also lowered the cities tax base ).

What is truly sad to see is that the many veterans who gave several of their best years to uphold the freedoms of this country are now being forced out of their VFW and American Legion clubs. I guess that is the thanks the current draft free generation feel they deserve.

You are very correct in your reference to Orwell's "1984", it just happened twenty three years later than he predicted.
Old 11-20-2007, 08:36 PM
21 posts, read 57,726 times
Reputation: 13
Default MinneSOTa Smoking Ban

Originally Posted by judogl44 View Post
I definitely think it will hurt. Years ago Vermont instituted a ban-everyone went across border to either NY or New Hampshire. Places in Vt. were boarded up. Just last week on a trip back from the East coast we stopped in Sandusky,OH at a sports bar we like-recent smoking ban-the place was dead and this was a Sunday at a sports bar.

It hurt in NYC-and recently the mayor (Bloomberg) said this should not have been made law and choice should be up to business owner.

Speaking for us-we are smokers-we will be going out much less. And from what we've heard so will many others.

No. Dakota has no smoking BUT if the establishment has a separate room with doors smoking is permitted in that area.

Worked in a bar in NJ years ago and they had "smoke eaters"-all cig smoke was drafted out and it worked very well.

Will be interesting to see-I don't see a lot of small bar owners staying in business.


I can only totally agree with your comment of the demise of many small businesses due to the "Great MinneSOTa Smoking ban". I have seen one local restaurant not only close it's doors but even go so far as to tear down the building leaving the town with one more weedy vacant lot on Main Street.

Iowa businesses along the MinnSOTa border saw a many fold increase increase in cigarette sales after MinneSOTa raised the tobacco taxes under the "HIF FEE", at least until Iowa's Guv. Chester Culver pushed through their own tax increase. Now many Iowans are making runs to Missouri to get much cheaper Cigatettes and also gassing up with cheaper gas just over the state line, it will also probably cause a greater influx of the so called illegal fireworks from Missouri.

I guess MinneSOTa don't feel the need these small businesses when they have all the "Big Companies" polluting their air, water, and soil.
Old 11-20-2007, 09:48 PM
21 posts, read 57,726 times
Reputation: 13
Originally Posted by Lindenin View Post
I'm more likely to go to bars now that they are smoke free. In the past, that was the main thing keeping me away.
Lindenin what kept you from going to a "Smoke Free Bar" before? Talk about a hyprocrite!
Old 11-20-2007, 10:03 PM
21 posts, read 57,726 times
Reputation: 13
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Two reasons; Some ding-bat decided to spear-head the campaign.
The anti-tobacco lobby out weighs the pro-tobacco lobby by
about 100 to 1. By out weigh I mean more $$$.
Guess where the Anti-Tobacco Lobby got all their "Big Bucks"? From the Tobacco Lawsuits from a few years ago, thats where. The government and the states claimed the money was to be used to "Treat Smoking Related Health care"! Duh!!!! You bet.
Old 11-25-2007, 07:58 PM
19,677 posts, read 27,066,372 times
Reputation: 17145
The smoking ban was to have killed off bar business in NYC and Philadelphia (where I live) and guess what...it hasn't happened. I'm guessing Minnesota will be just fine. The option is what, sit at home and smoke/drink? It defeats the purpose of a bar, a place to meet and mingle. People adapt.
Old 11-25-2007, 10:43 PM
166 posts, read 554,072 times
Reputation: 38
I worked in restaurants back when the smoking ban went into effect in St. Paul and I remember worrying that tips would go way down. It actually didn't make an impact on income at all. There are a lot of people with children who will happily go out to eat a little more when the restaurant is non-smoking. The ban had positive effects in LA and NCY as well.

As far as the bar scene itself, smokers generally just step outside. It sucks in the winter, but people adjust.
Old 12-01-2007, 05:16 PM
4 posts, read 9,565 times
Reputation: 11
Originally Posted by hi ppl View Post
In AZ they began a smoking ban this past summer. I don't think it slowed the places down to much being the weather allows for open decks. Many of the places have decks with misters, tables, even a shot bar on the deck. Then again it's AZ, nothin compared to the freezing nights/days in the north. Bad move for those areas, I say if they nonsmokers (like myself) don't like it then stay the F@#* home and be bored. Not like you need to live in the bar anyways. The bars/clubs here have the option to allow it in the facility if they really want to, I believe. The other places I think are more strict and need to follow like restaurants of which I agree.

I am a smoker and you are right... I look from it both ways though.. yeah it should be banned in family resturaunts where kids go.. But the bars are adult time away and relax I mean if you don't like it then go to apple bee's or something... but the bars that are 21+ seriously I mean if you don't like it too bad be an adult and deal with it go somewhere else... I try to understand it. Being that I am from Minnesota and stuff I don't go to many bars because I can't smoke..
Old 12-01-2007, 05:40 PM
4 posts, read 9,565 times
Reputation: 11
Originally Posted by music7lover View Post
Defend smoking all you want, however I am a healthy person that doesn't smoke. Put me in a smoky bar and I will have a headache for about 2 days afterwards ( I don't drink either).......So the facts are that 2nd hand smoke is bad if I get that sick after being exposed to it.

For the person that thinks smoking is cool. You sure will look cool strapped to that ventilator in the hospital bed when you get older and cannot breathe anymore. Cancer doesn't sound very fun either.
well you know that is our problem and we will deal with it... You don't have to think smoking is good or bad it is a choice and others should respect that. There are plenty of other things that kill us. Plus, Why would you go into a bar when you don't drink or smoke... this is why we have the ban... non-smokers and non-drinkers don't like it. What are they going to do make all bars close or something.... What happened to our freedom..
Old 12-23-2007, 08:44 AM
1 posts, read 2,325 times
Reputation: 10
Default I see your point, but....

Originally Posted by Castaway View Post
They have just instituted smoking ban in NM July 15th. Our Guv, Bill Richardson, listened to the advise of Mayor Bloomberg. Bloomberg said that it hasn't effected NYC. Though, I am a New Mexican now, I am originally a from NY. My family has said it has effected small corner bars. The mom & pop businesses have been hurt the worst. The city I went to college in, Oswego, NY has in fact asked for exemptions for bars that have lost revenue.
Originally Posted by Castaway View Post

The bar scene has definitely changed in NM. I live in a small town and am a bar/restaurant manager. Our restaurant has been non-smoking for years and the bar (a separate closed room) has always allowed smoking. Since the ban, I have opened a patio to accommodate smokers in hopes of luring them back. We are down 75%. We are a small bar, more of a conversation place than a dance club. During the warmer weather, the patio helped to bring back our smoking clientele but it is already getting a bit chilly. I have installed propane heaters to keep the chill off right now and hopefully I'll not lose the smoking clientele this winter. Inside the bar is empty and everyone is outside (smokers & non-smokers). Why would anyone come to my bar if they have to sit outside (in inclimate weather) to have a conversation. Our law allows Indian casinos & private clubs (ELKS, VFW, American Legion, etc.) to permit smoking so many people go there because it is more comfortable. It's not fair to the other bars.

I was out last night and there was only 10 people in another bar (pool hall) which is usually packed on Fridays. 2 at the bar, 4 playing pool, and 4 outside smoking. I know the owner and I know he is hurting. Small businesses (bars) are not going to weather this storm !

I feel that a bar is the last bastion for hedonism & debauchery. You can speak your mind and be just a little bit naughty. Smokers, I know, do not smoke at their jobs nor in their cars and houses. Bars were the only places they felt comfortable and relaxed while having a cold frosty one and a smoke. They no longer have this piece of mind so they just stay home and smoke on their porches. My friend said, "Why bother going out if you can't relax & enjoy?"

Do you know the article in which Mayor Bloomberg stated that the smoking ban should have been up to private business owners? I totally agree with that! My employees feel the financial crunch (tips) and so does the business.

These are all valid arguements and I think that there maybe some justifaction for small businesses to get a small break. However, if they are unwilling to adapt to the changing times they will no longer be able to function properly. There are many other things that can be done to accomidate the smokers. I have been to many bars in Minnesota and California where there is no smoking allowed in them and they have setup specific areas outside and inside that allows for a comfortable atmosphere for smokers that is not considered part of the bar. i.e. Duluth MN, Grandma's sports garden has the whole top of the bar specifically set aside for smokers to go up and have a smoke. I have been known to go up there to have a smoke if me so choose. Minneapolis MN, not sure of the bar name, has a sheltered outside area and small heaters to make a more comfortable outside smoking area (even in the coldest temperatures). This option is not expensive either. There will be initial investments that need to occur on both accounts but it is up to the business owner to recognize which give his business the biggest benefit. There is room for improvement and the businesses to capitalize on the new laws are the ones who are going to come up with creative ways to make it comfortable for their smoking customers and retain them.
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