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Old 10-16-2007, 10:21 PM
 
8 posts, read 22,077 times
Reputation: 14

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So I went to work on the first thursday after the smoking ban went into effect. I start at 5:00 p.m. and usually there are about 5 tables full when I arrive. (there are 18 tables and 5 patio table in the place and I work them by myself). Usually by 6:00 the place in entirely full and it stays that way until after 8:00 and then it clears out and fills up again an hour later. So on the first Thursday after the ban I got to work at 5:00 and there were two tables full (one was with three regulars), at 5:30 the same two tables and at 6:00 the same two tables. I said to my regulars "where the heck are all the non-smokers who wanted this stupid ban" about 15 minutes later I had about 8 tables walk in at the same time. For dinner. They weren't there to drink, they had one drink with dinner. Some used coupons. They ate and left. The place was completely empty again by 7:30 and never filled back up again. Since then, it seems to be filling up again, but this is out busiest time of the year normally anyway, so I can't tell yet what will happen in the future. I think they'll all stay home in january when they can't smoke outside because it's 40 below windchill. But that's our slowest month of the year anyway because people are getting their credit card bills from what they spent at christmas. I don't know yet. But unless the non-smokers come out in full force and spend $$$$ in the bars in their area they are going to see alot of establishments close. Which will mean in about 2009 we will all see our property taxes go up. If the state can no longer collect liquor and food sales tax and tax from cigarette sales in bars, where do you think they're going to make up that lost income? Also you'll probably see an increase in students dropping out of college and single moms on welfare.

 
Old 10-17-2007, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MN
571 posts, read 2,524,461 times
Reputation: 314
Thanks for sharing, glitter. Hopefully (for everyone) things will pick up once smokers get "used" to the ban and maybe more non-smokers will start going out too...but only time will tell. On the other hand, the casinos sure seem busy! Went to black bear a couple weeks ago (which is still under construction) and it was packed. Seemed to be more smokers than usual.
 
Old 10-21-2007, 01:44 PM
 
Location: NM
118 posts, read 206,608 times
Reputation: 32
glitter,
Sorry to hear about the lack of business. OUCH! Once again, I feel that 'they' think we are just collateral damage. Hopefully, things will pick up, but as you said, who wants to stand outside in freezing temperatures. At least, in NM, the weather , though cold, is not as fierce as MN. Good Luck!
 
Old 10-23-2007, 03:52 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania/Ireland
2 posts, read 4,267 times
Reputation: 17
These bans have become very in vogue around the First World. However, they were not well thought out. First, due to the decline of smokers, they are easy sales to non-smokers who don't like smoke. However, most establishments no longer allow smoking where permitted. I don't know any businesses, malls, etc, where smoking is allowed. The majority of restaurants do not allow it. Those that do serve a smoking clientele and are not the choice of most people. Some bars do not allow smoking where permitted. It depends on the clientele. No non-smoker is denied choice. They have far more than smokers do.

Most people covered the property rights issue. Smoking is indeed legal and moreover taxed by non-smokers, and businesses are private. People choose to be there. Thus, the patron or employee goes to them, not the other way around. Therefore those on the premises consent. Plus, it is not their money or profession at stake--the owners' are.

I'm an Irish citizen. Ireland introduced a national ban in 2004 and it is often cited by the ban supporters everywhere as a prime example of it working. Indeed, the air smells better for non-smokers but when it came to pubs it destroyed the Irish pub scene. Hundreds of the once reknowned country pubs closed and pub liquor licence applications are down by hundreds. Nobody finds them too profitable anymore. The ban drove away clientele and keeps smokers outside. Now the conversation is at parties, hanging with friends at home or outside where drinks aren't being bought. This also required pubs to increase prices to offest the loss, but this has now driven away all patrons. Nobody wants to pay 6 euros (9 dollars) for a pint. This cycle is simply making pubs unprofitable except for clubs.

What this also did, concerning health, is also increase overall alcohol and tobacco consumption plus drugs. People drink six packs and liquor at home or before they go out in the end so they can drink cheaper (smoker and non-smoker) and smoke (for the smokers). Bars regulated, paced and monitored such things beforehand. Now it is a free for all. Drugs are also at the young crowds' parties and dealers and users like the hanging outside pubs where they are less easily watched.

The outside scene is also where the fun is, and thus new young people are picking up smoking as part of the ritual, especially for 'smirting'--bumming and sharing ciggies as a hookup opportunity. For the first time in over 40 years, smoking rates amongst the public have increased. It's re-glamourised. And once started, the young will always be susceptible or hooked on them in life.

Some people do attend pubs more who hated smoking but now they are drinking more and blowing money. Thus, it added a nicer atmosphere for the beforehand reluctant to get intoxicated, eat bad food, etc. They aren't enough to undo damage to the trade, but now new people are doing more unhealthy things.

Thus, bans make no sense at a vice trade (bars, casinos, strip joints, etc). They are fun, but not healthy. People go there to enjoy indulgences. Bans hurt the business and hurt health in the Big Picture.

Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 10-23-2007 at 04:06 AM..
 
Old 10-23-2007, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Maryland's 6th District.
8,358 posts, read 25,172,941 times
Reputation: 6540
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVguy View Post

I never really followed how the smoking ban got passed.
Two reasons; Some ding-bat decided to spear-head the campaign.
The anti-tobacco lobby out weighs the pro-tobacco lobby by
about 100 to 1. By out weigh I mean more $$$.
 
Old 10-23-2007, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MN
571 posts, read 2,524,461 times
Reputation: 314
O'Sullivan:

Thank you for giving us a different perspective. Lots of new points for us to consider.
 
Old 10-24-2007, 04:59 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,017 times
Reputation: 10
Has there been any bars that have closed because of the ban? At least those in the metro area that, I believe, have already had such a smoking ban?
 
Old 10-28-2007, 10:10 AM
 
Location: NM
118 posts, read 206,608 times
Reputation: 32
My clientele (loyal) will stand by the bar as long as smoking is allowed on the patio and it's not too cold outside. When the weather gets too cold they will opt to stay at home or go to the casinos where it's warm and they are not treated like lepers.
I cannot foresee things getting better for the bar I run. The future of small corner bars is dismal .
 
Old 11-03-2007, 09:55 AM
 
143 posts, read 455,468 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tertles View Post
Has there been any bars that have closed because of the ban? At least those in the metro area that, I believe, have already had such a smoking ban?
In most of the state, I think it's too early to tell what the final results will be.
Most Duluth bars are reporting a 25-50% decline in business. One or two are actually reporting increases though.
I think eventually, the smaller places that were already operating on a shoestring will eventually close because there's nothing they can morph into that isn't cost prohibitive.
In my opinion, The state should be offering low or no interest loans to these businesses to help them figure out a way to remain viable.
 
Old 11-03-2007, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids, MN
571 posts, read 2,524,461 times
Reputation: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Bob View Post
In most of the state, I think it's too early to tell what the final results will be.
Most Duluth bars are reporting a 25-50% decline in business. One or two are actually reporting increases though.
I think eventually, the smaller places that were already operating on a shoestring will eventually close because there's nothing they can morph into that isn't cost prohibitive.
In my opinion, The state should be offering low or no interest loans to these businesses to help them figure out a way to remain viable.
I know when Duluth originally implemented its smoking ban several years ago (which still allowed smoking in places that didn't serve "real" food or allow minors), they had a "loophole" in place for restaurant owners who could prove they lost a certain percentage of revenue due to the ban. I believe a couple places (like Jim's Hamburgers) were able to get an "exemption" after they were able to prove they lost so much money after a year's time. Too bad the state couldn't do something like this for the small, neighborhood type bars?

At the very least, I agree they should give loans to businesses to build patios and the like so they can keep some of their customers. Lord knows the state makes enough money off of Pawlenty's cigarette "fee" to fund it.
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