How will the smoking ban affect the "bar scene?" (Minneapolis: houses, neighborhood)

[MidniteBreeze]

Hi all,

I posted this on the general U.S. board, but since I'm particularly curious about Minnesota, I thought I'd cross-post it here as well. Since some communites in MN have already had smoking bans in place prior to the statewide one that takes effect on Oct 1, I think we can get a good mix of perspectives here.

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So as of Monday, Minnesota will join the growing list of states with indoor workplace smoking bans. Colorado, (where we used to live) also recently passed similar legislation. When we were out there visiting recently, we thought we'd stop in on an old neighborhood watering hole. We got there (on a weekend night) and the place was DEAD! There were only two other people actualy inside and a small group outside (smoking) who left shortly thereafter. We stayed for a beer but also left because there just wasn't anything going on. I doubt that place will be able to stay in business much longer if the current trend continues.

That, of course, is just one example, but I'm curious about other places with smoking bans (particularly in bars.) I'm not trying to start yet another pro or anti smoking ban debate per se, but I do wonder what kind of impact these laws will have in both the long and short term (especially in cold states like mine where it's not likely that people will be willing to stand outside in subzero weather to have a smoke.)

What have you observed? Are bars in your area struggling? Thriving? Are more people opting to stay home to drink/socialize? If you still go out to bars, is the "atmosphere" different?

Do you think we'll see a general decline in the number of drinking establishments due to smoking bans in the future or will we just get used to it? (I think people are getting used to the idea of non-smoking restaurants, but I think it might be different with bars just because smoking and drinking go hand in hand for a lot of people....plus people tend to spend more time at a bar than they do at a restaurant.)

Lastly, if you live in a "border" town, do you see any mass "migrations" to bars across the state line where people can still smoke?

I look forward to your responses.

[judogl44]

I definitely think it will hurt. Years ago Vermont instituted a ban-everyone went across border to either NY or New Hampshire. Places in Vt. were boarded up. Just last week on a trip back from the East coast we stopped in Sandusky,OH at a sports bar we like-recent smoking ban-the place was dead and this was a Sunday at a sports bar.

It hurt in NYC-and recently the mayor (Bloomberg) said this should not have been made law and choice should be up to business owner.

Speaking for us-we are smokers-we will be going out much less. And from what we've heard so will many others.

No. Dakota has no smoking BUT if the establishment has a separate room with doors smoking is permitted in that area.

Worked in a bar in NJ years ago and they had "smoke eaters"-all cig smoke was drafted out and it worked very well.

Will be interesting to see-I don't see a lot of small bar owners staying in business.

[Castaway]

They have just instituted smoking ban in NM July 15th. Our Guv, Bill Richardson, listened to the advise of Mayor Bloomberg. Bloomberg said that it hasn't effected NYC. Though, I am a New Mexican now, I am originally a from NY. My family has said it has effected small corner bars. The mom & pop businesses have been hurt the worst. The city I went to college in, Oswego, NY has in fact asked for exemptions for bars that have lost revenue.

The bar scene has definitely changed in NM. I live in a small town and am a bar/restaurant manager. Our restaurant has been non-smoking for years and the bar (a separate closed room) has always allowed smoking. Since the ban, I have opened a patio to accommodate smokers in hopes of luring them back. We are down 75%. We are a small bar, more of a conversation place than a dance club. During the warmer weather, the patio helped to bring back our smoking clientele but it is already getting a bit chilly. I have installed propane heaters to keep the chill off right now and hopefully I'll not lose the smoking clientele this winter. Inside the bar is empty and everyone is outside (smokers & non-smokers). Why would anyone come to my bar if they have to sit outside (in inclimate weather) to have a conversation. Our law allows Indian casinos & private clubs (ELKS, VFW, American Legion, etc.) to permit smoking so many people go there because it is more comfortable. It's not fair to the other bars.

I was out last night and there was only 10 people in another bar (pool hall) which is usually packed on Fridays. 2 at the bar, 4 playing pool, and 4 outside smoking. I know the owner and I know he is hurting. Small businesses (bars) are not going to weather this storm!

I feel that a bar is the last bastion for hedonism & debauchery. You can speak your mind and be just a little bit naughty. Smokers, I know, do not smoke at their jobs nor in their cars and houses. Bars were the only places they felt comfortable and relaxed while having a cold frosty one and a smoke. They no longer have this piece of mind so they just stay home and smoke on their porches. My friend said, "Why bother going out if you can't relax & enjoy?"

Do you know the article in which Mayor Bloomberg stated that the smoking ban should have been up to private business owners? I totally agree with that! My employees feel the financial crunch (tips) and so does the business.

[judogl44]

Castaway-I don't think it was an article it was on one of the cable TV news shows.

You are so right in your stating that the Mom and Pop places will be closed. As far as I know the ban in MN will also be in effect for the Elks/Eagles/VFW's/Am legions. Not sure about casinos. Atlantic City casinos allow smoking even tho it's illegal in bars/restaurants.

One hospital in NJ had outdoor huts for smokers-about 100ft from building-they have now torn them down and banned people from smoking even in their cars in parking lots. Employees will be fired if caught.

What's next-cheesburgers/fries/ice cream? It's "1984" come to haunt us-big brother rules.

[kuan]

I might actually go to Fern's again for a late night dinner.

[Isaysos]

I LOVE the smoking ban, and I hope that one day all states pass it!

[music7lover]

I think it is going to kill the bar scene, however the nicer places will be ok . I live in Minneapolis and have been loving the no smoke law. Breathing smoke makes me ill and gives me headaches, never mind the smelly clothes. It is nice to go out to hear live music and come home and feel "normal", not all dirty and sick from the assault of having to breathe that poison.

[Castaway]

Originally Posted by judogl44

Castaway-I don't think it was an article it was on one of the cable TV news shows.

You are so right in your stating that the Mom and Pop places will be closed. As far as I know the ban in MN will also be in effect for the Elks/Eagles/VFW's/Am legions. Not sure about casinos. Atlantic City casinos allow smoking even tho it's illegal in bars/restaurants.

One hospital in NJ had outdoor huts for smokers-about 100ft from building-they have now torn them down and banned people from smoking even in their cars in parking lots. Employees will be fired if caught.

What's next-cheesburgers/fries/ice cream? It's "1984" come to haunt us-big brother rules.

Thanks, Judog, for the info on Bloomberg. I'll look around for the economic impact and why he has changed his tune.

This thread is about night life and bars and the effect smoking bans have on the revenue (or lack of), atmosphere and climate. I find that the ban has put a damper on the fun filled nights. I understand that non smokers do not like the smell or want to be away from smoke because of health issues. Having saying that, I find that there is less people in all the non smoking bars. We had a non-smoking bar in our town as well as smoking bars. We had the best of both worlds. All bars did well. The non smoking bar did allow smoking on their patio. The party at that establishment was always outside with the smokers. Which was kind of strange. With colder weather around the corner, I think that the numbers of people will dwindle to nothing.

MidniteBreeze:
Have you heard the new law proposed in KY? They are planning to fine people going to a neighboring states and buying cigarettes if they are caught with more than two cartons in their possession. Is the state of KY afraid of losing the tax revenue from sales?

[Parrotpaul]

The no smoking laws bring more people into restaurants and bars. I live in California where smoking has been banned in bars and restaurants for years.

The places are all loaded, active, and business is fine. It's a real pleasure to be able to go into places where smoking is not allowed.

[Castaway]

Originally Posted by Parrotpaul

The no smoking laws bring more people into restaurants and bars. I live in California where smoking has been banned in bars and restaurants for years.

The places are all loaded, active, and business is fine. It's a real pleasure to be able to go into places where smoking is not allowed.

I've read there has been a lot of revenue lost in CA due to the smoking ban. Many people have lost their livelihoods and their investments. I'm sure many businesses have seen an increase but other businesses have closed their doors.