What does 'Minnesota Nice' mean? (Minneapolis, Ely: credit, transplants, hoa)

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by newcastle

Like I said before, Minnesota Nice is the person at the mall who waits for you to leave your parking space and helps you by getting out of his truck, and makes sure you avoid hitting a nearby parked vehicle. He was just being "nice" and didn't ecpect anything out of it-except your parking spot.

Minnesota nice is also inviting you to "come over anytime" but not really meaning it or telling another person you are mad at them by ignoring them, talking behind their back, and expecting the person you are mad at to be able to read your mind-because you never actuially told the person why you are mad at them-you just expect them to know.

This happens all the time at work, church and the gym. Yes and whoever posted the phrase about "dance cards being full" and trying to break into cliques is right on. The full dance card is made up mostly of family or old high school friends.

I love Minnesota-but Minnesota Nice is a bit of passive agressive behavior or just being friendly and helping someone out.

I don't doubt that this is common in Minnesota, but I don't think Minnesota has a "market" on "nice". I talked with someone in my class who was from Minnesota. He told me that Minnesotans tend to be reserved. Well, living in Georgia and going to college here, I notice alot of what you call "Minnesota Nice" in Georgia. You mention "dance cards being full". I have seen this "dance cards being full", in Georgia, especially out in the sticks. It's called "cliqueish". The difference is that alot of Georgians tend to be outgoing and open. I spent nearly a decade in my exurban subdivision in Paulding County. The reason the neighbors new each other is because they had children. My siblings were in the early stages of elementary school so they had more close friends than I did(I was out there at age 11). The neighbors new each other through the kids, but rarely talked to one another because they all had families. You didn't have block parties and stuff like that. Alot of the kids who lived out there forever may have been outgoing, but could be standoffish sometimes. It's the same in college. I have come across people who were very "dance card is full" in character. You may have small talk, but as far as being invited to parties and going places together, unless you are in some kind of club where people are forced to be together, it would depend. This is everywhere. This is just my experience. This isn't unique to Minnesota IMHO.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

The number of MN'ns at private colleges is miniscule, and the circumstances among them varies by college. No way can you generalize to MNn's or even Minneapolitans.

I would disagree with the minuscule number of MN's at private colleges. I would say a LARGE percentage of students at most MN private colleges ARE from MN--probably close to 65-70% at least. If you add South Dakota, Wisconsin and Iowa it probably jumps to around 90%--at least that was my experience. The exception to that would be Carleton and possibly Macallister.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by golfgal

I would disagree with the minuscule number of MN's at private colleges. I would say a LARGE percentage of students at most MN private colleges ARE from MN--probably close to 65-70% at least. If you add South Dakota, Wisconsin and Iowa it probably jumps to around 90%--at least that was my experience. The exception to that would be Carleton and possibly Macallister.

No, you mis-read me. I said "The number of MN'ns at private colleges is miniscule...", meaning out of the 4.5M (or whatever the total state poulation is) Minnesotans, a miniscule number are enrolled in private colleges.

My point was, you can't generalize from this small group (of what, 10,000 MN'ns who are in a private college in any state) what the rest of MN'ns (4.5 million) are like.

[Bilingual white dude]

Originally Posted by tvdxer

Very true.

I 'll add my 2cents. Very true what moving 123456 said but I will add another. Basically if someone runs you off the road or cuts you off real bad we still do not use the horn. I really don't even know why here in Minnesota we have horns, no one uses them. I think it's because were tooooo nice. I've been in other cities where they use their horn even before the light turns green. There's my 2 cents.

[gowestgowest]

There is definitely a sense of Minnesota Nice. I have lived there only one year. I have lived in a lot of different states, but I did a lot of research and social study in Minnesota. You will be very disappointed if you move here and are considered a transplant. The people will smile and give there best face forward, but don't take it seriously. They do have a character about them that is what one would call anti social and unacceptable in most regions of the United States. The worse I have seen it was in Marshall Minnesota, and that part of the state where there are very few transplants. When describing the personalities to other professionals they all concurred that this state or area has that unkind nature and people from Minnesota who leave Minnesota don't get a very good acceptance in other regions because of it. It makes you wonder why there is so much hate, unkindness, rudeness. It could send the average friendly American into a deep depression if they spend any time here at all. My final observations were that in the job market the turn over rate is extremely high. People can not wait to get out of here as soon as they move in. I hear comments like " as soon as we can we will move", "This is definitely not our last stop in life", "when is the next flight out". The housing market is good because a house will sell three times in less than 2 years, and the seller will take whatever they can get just to get out of Minnesota. I will put this in the book as one of the worse places to live!!!!!!!! Two thumbs down and no stars. Wear your coat of irons when you come here. The Marshall hospital was also a horrible experience. I interviewed many people who have come and gone in this area and they all feel close to the same as I did when I left.

[golfgal]

We lived in Marshall for a number of years, we were transplants and LOVED it there, although I will agree with you about the Marshall Hospital-NOT GOOD. Life is what you make of it. I know plenty of people that would move to Marshall, complain about everything and everyone and wonder why they didn't fit in. Then there were those that found things to do, people with common interests and really felt like it was home, like us. There is no one place in the world that will suit all people.

[sugarbeet]

Originally Posted by gowestgowest

When describing the personalities to other professionals they all concurred that this state or area has that unkind nature and people from Minnesota who leave Minnesota don't get a very good acceptance in other regions because of it.

Yikes! I grew up less than 30 minutes from Marshall. In the past 10 years I've lived and worked in five other states and traveled all over the US and to other countries as part of my job. People in all these places were kind enough to hide their lack of acceptance of my unkind nature very well, I guess. Thank goodness I've moved back to Minnesota where all of us unkind people can peacefully coexist.

Ok, no more sarcasm. I don't mean to mock you - that is probably just the kind of thing you're talking about. If I may make an assumption based on your usage of the language, are you from another country? I would imagine that the adjustment to southwest MN is rather difficult and I know that many who have come to the town I grew up in to work at the hospital have left rather quickly.

I have to honestly say that I don't think people are as unkind as you think. They are just not as warm and outgoing as some other people. A lot of the people in Marshall have probably lived in town or within 30 minutes for their entire lives. They have not met new people very often and don't always know how to act.

I am sorry you had a bad experience, but please know that everyone is not like that.

[Avindair]

Originally Posted by newcastle

Minnesota nice is also inviting you to "come over anytime" but not really meaning it or telling another person you are mad at them by ignoring them, talking behind their back, and expecting the person you are mad at to be able to read your mind-because you never actuially told the person why you are mad at them-you just expect them to know.

First off, my background:

* Military brat. Lived in Northern California, England, Mississippi, Texas, Germany, and North Dakota.

* Gregarious and open. Started college on a Theater scholarship, opted out of it because I'm fond of shoes and food.

* Still close to many friends I made as far back as my childhood in the seventies.

* Lived in Minnesota since 1998, with eighteen months north of St. Paul, and the rest in an affluent northwestern suburb of Minneapolis.

That being said, the above statement is true.

It's also utterly, and completely maddening.

As I stated in another thread, my family and I have made a really good go at fitting in up here. Got as involved as a couple and a family can in community projects, in business, even the arts.

None of it mattered; we were always the outsiders. That meant that just the right (or wrong) comment would be enough to put you on the outs.

My favorite example? After a trip down south to visit family relatives, I casually mentioned to a Minnesotan acquaintance (who I honestly thought was a friend) that, after six years up north, I was surprised at how warm and open southerners were in comparison to Minnesotans.

I might as well have pissed on this person's shoes. I got an icy eye, followed by condescending speaking to about making "generalities", and an angry sign-off.

Oh, yeah, and that acquaintanceship-- which had been going for well over a year -- ended on the spot.

Yes, yes, I know. This is how nature says "Do Not Touch". That doesn't erase the hurt at a relationship ended before its time, though.

Other examples:

* One acquaintanceship -- one that had lasted nearly a year -- ended when we mentioned how much we looked forward to retiring to a warmer climate.

* Another -- which involved a big group of creative locals, and involved a tight relationship between our children and another couples -- ended when a member of their clique decided on the spot not to like my wife and I. No reason; just instant loathing. Result? Eighteen months of long nights, chats, and what we thought were genuine connections severed in the space of one glance.

Professionally, be prepared for workplaces where co-workers went to school together. Not colllege; High School, middle school, and not uncommonly grade school. Good luck making professional inroads with cliques that tightly-knit.

I have no need to exaggerate here. The reality is honestly this unpleasant.

Worse, being an outsider hurts our kids, too. It doesn't matter that our daughter doesn't remember any place but Minnesota. All that matters is that her friend's parents know we're from out of the area. The result? She's reminded by her local friends quite often that she, too, is not really a local.

Of course, it doesn't help that our last name isn't of northern European or Scandinavian descent. This point is usually brought to my attention in public no less than once a week, often accompanied by a suspicious stare.

No, I'm not kidding.

Our older son? Same thing. He's already decided that when he graduates in two years he's going out of state immediately.

That's okay, we plan to follow him.

It's not all been bad. We have lovely neighbors, who we've helped-out and who have helped us out in return, when we needed. Can't call them friends, though; those relationships were solidified when we arrived in our home seven years ago. Though they know our names, and our courteous, we're still "the outsiders".

At least they're pleasant about it. For that I'm grateful.

I don't share these stories to sound bitter. I share them to inform others of what a well-traveled, gregarious individual might experience when trying to assimilate into local culture.

For us, well, we've decided that enough is enough. Once our son graduates, we're selling our home and moving on. That will put twelve years under our belt. That's enough.

Please consider my tale, and the comments above, carefully before you decide to move to this area.

Thank you,

Avindair

[sugarbeet]

Avindair, I don't doubt your stories. I am surprised that this happens in the Twin Cities area and imagine it becomes less common as the population density increases.

However, everything you mention is true (except the friendship stories - I don't know about that) to what my family experienced in a small town in Southwest Minnesota. This year will mark my parents' 29th consecutive year of living full time in that town (nearly as long as small business owners and members of various boards and councils) and I can guarantee that every person in town still considers them outsiders.

That being said, as outsiders they have still made life long close friends as well as many, many casual acquaintances. As have I and I haven't lived there in over 15 years. I think one can be an outsider and still live happily.

[Avindair]

Originally Posted by sugarbeet

(except the friendship stories - I don't know about that)

As I stated, those were facts, and what my wife, my son, and my daughter have all experienced.

Of course, these stories are anecdotal by their very nature. Nevertheless, they are absolutely spot-on true.

Unfortunately, I can't agree with your point about living happily as an outsider. If one is solitary by nature, it may not be that much of a burden. For people like my family, who are gregarious by nature, it's a deal-breaker.

I could not in good conscience recommend Minneapolis to anyone born out-of-state and out of the Upper Midwest region, particularly one who considers themselves outgoing and social. The cliques are too well-formed, the personalities too stoic, and the environment just too cold for someone like that to thrive.

All MHO, of course.

Avindair