A Few Questions About The Homes (Minneapolis, St. Paul: real estate, houses, tornadoes)

[moving123456]

Originally Posted by Robert P Stewart

I'd like to take a shot at the question of building materials.

Not much brick is used in homes up here because brick is NOT a good insulator. The brick that you see in buildings up here is facade, with stout insulation behind it. Wood is a better insulator and a heck of a lot cheaper (both in terms of cost and labor) to install.

Originally Posted by golfgal

Brick is more affordable in the south. It also tends to keep the heat OUT better so it is more popular in warmer climates.

Originally Posted by Robert P Stewart

Brick absorbs summer heat like mad. It also gets wicked cold in the winter. Not very insulative - what ever the temperature is, that's what the brick will be.

Originally Posted by golfgal

True, brick does absorb heat but it doesn't TRANSFER the heat, or cold for that matter. It also maintains the heat or cold longer so as it cools in the evening it hangs on to that cool for a longer time then a wood house so it doesn't get as hot.

Brick is more affordable in the south because there are a lot of brick manufactures there, thus transportation costs are lower. They also tend to have rich clay soil to make the brick so the supplies are easily accessible, much like the timber frame houses in the north, the supply of timber is more easily accessible.

Also, add the factor that they have termites in the south so a wood frame house isn't desirable because of the upkeep. Since we don't have to worry about termites, we can use wood.

After I started to travel more I noticed that Toronto has a lot of brick homes. They are not exactly a warm climate and have plenty of wood available nearby, yet most homes seem to be brick, even new "cookie cutter" homes.

This is an average suburban Toronto "cookie cutter" home going for around $250k.



http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9034/toronto3aw5.jpg (broken link)

[my54ford]

IMHO you don't see allot of brick or stucko homes up here because of the extreams in temperture. Wood tends to handle expansion and contraction much better the brick or stucko. 3/4 of the front of my house is Brick it always seems that I'm tuck pointing of fixing cracked bricks in the spring. I also think the ground tends to "Heave" more up here then some of that red clay soil they have in the south. How many brick houses do you see in the swampy areas down south. Not a bunch I think. I think thats why many builders have gone to poured foundations instead of layed up block it takes langer to crack...

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by my54ford

IMHO you don't see allot of brick or stucko homes up here because of the extreams in temperture. Wood tends to handle expansion and contraction much better the brick or stucko. 3/4 of the front of my house is Brick it always seems that I'm tuck pointing of fixing cracked bricks in the spring. I also think the ground tends to "Heave" more up here then some of that red clay soil they have in the south. How many brick houses do you see in the swampy areas down south. Not a bunch I think. I think thats why many builders have gone to poured foundations instead of layed up block it takes langer to crack...

You should visit the Kansas City metro area and see all of the newer cookie cutter houses with stucco exterior. I have seen many of them that develop cracks due to extremes in temperature. I have no idea why developers would build stucco houses in the Great Plains. It really does not make sense at all.

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by blakeb99

I noticed a few things related to the houses there while I was in Minnesota. The main thing that caught my eye was how almost no homes at all were made of brick. Here in the south, almost every home is brick. Anyone know why there are so few brick homes up there? Also, when driving through the twin cities I kept noticing these places that I weren't quite sure what they were. They looked almost liked houses, but at the same time like apartments cause they were connected together. But, they also had garages. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Also, I noticed all the older homes were very different from here in the south. They were almost all square and tall. Our architecture is quite different here.

There is a lot of forest around here, so wood is probably a lot cheaper than brick. The brick homes I see tend to be expensive "luxury" homes.

The ones connected together are townhomes. It seems like a ton have gone up in recent years. You don't have those down South?

Perhaps the reason MN homes tend to be "tall" is because heat rises. According to here, n Minneapolis, there are 7,876 heating degrees day; in Atlanta, it's just 2,827. So designing a house to use as little heating oil / gas as possible is important here.

I would hope there'd be architectural differences between the two regions! Very different climates!

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by blakeb99

ok, so most of the material I was seeing on the homes up their was wood? I was thinking it was like some type of vinyl paneling, but that was looking at them from the road. I'm not referring to the older homes. I could easily tell they were wood, but the newer homes didn't look quite like wood.

That's vinyl siding. Cheap looking, but cheap to buy and put on.

There's a comparison of siding costs here:

Vinyl siding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stone is expensive! You see it on very few houses around here.

[northbound74]

What are old houses in the south like? Also, in contrast to the south, almost every house up here has a basement.

Something I noticed growing up in the south, as far as older homes go, the more expensive houses were tall, two story structures and often sided with brick, but not always. A lot of them Greek Revival, Victorian, or some variation of those. The cheaper homes were made with as much wood as possible, and were one story bungalows.
Very few of them had basements, even with the constant threat of tornadoes...a trend that continues to this day. Freezing pipes aren't a big problem in most winters, though.

Modern homes (1950's on) are primarily brick, at least in the front for appearance, with vinyl being quite popular in the last twenty years. This is true regardless of price range. More expensive homes sometimes have stone or stucco with natural wood accents.

I also think the ground tends to "Heave" more up here then some of that red clay soil they have in the south. How many brick houses do you see in the swampy areas down south. Not a bunch I think. I think thats why many builders have gone to poured foundations instead of layed up block it takes langer to crack...

Brick homes are found all over the south, regardless of what soil is underneath... swamps or highlands. They do have a bad tendency to crack. I've also seen poured foundations settle unevenly to where one side of the room is 2-3 inches lower than the other. Construction quality in parts, certainly not all, of the south have historically been very poor.

Brick is more affordable in the south. It also tends to keep the heat OUT better so it is more popular in warmer climates.

There are a lot of brick manufacturers in the south.
From my personal experience, nothing keeps out the southern heat except for a good air conditioner. Life is not possible without one. Or two. Maybe three for when the temperature is 105 with 92% humidity.
Northern Minnesota has fascinated me for a long time, especially the North Shore area. The thought of not having to deal with temperatures above 85 is very tempting. I'm also one of those freaks who actually likes 0. The colder the better... to a point.
Now to get the wife on board.

[Joe_Ryder]

Originally Posted by northbound74

The thought of not having to deal with temperatures above 85 is very tempting. I'm also one of those freaks who actually likes 0. The colder the better... to a point.
Now to get the wife on board.

I have a house in Northern Minnesota. I spent last year there. It gets well above 85 in summer. If you like Zero, you'll be happy for about 4 months of the year and zero will be balmy.

I have to admit that winter in Minnesota is kind of nice. It doesn't snow much except in early and late winter. From December to about March it's bitter cold with skies of the most beautiful blue you've ever seen. The air is crisp and clean. Most of the snow seems to be in late fall and early spring. Then it snows a lot.

I consider late spring to be the worst time of year in MN. It starts getting hot and rainy with more mosquitoes than a Louisiana Bayou. The warm rain is kind of nice but the mosquitoes are vicious. They're not the big monsters you see in the south but they are tiny little monsters that can get through even the smallest crack. Summers are very hot but mercifully short.

A lot of the Northern part of MN is made up of a black clay soil. That stuff moves around a lot. It expands and contracts quite a bit depending on the temperature. My guess is that most houses are made of wood for the same reason they build them of wood in CA. Beside easy availabiity of wood, the ground is always moving and brick or stone tends to crumble whereas wood will expand and contract with not only the moving ground but the temperature extremes. Of course the availability of wood isn't that great any more. With heavy controls on logging, most of the construction lumber in the US comes from the tree farms in Florida. They have lots of water and warm winters so a pine will grow something like 3 times faster than in the north.

I was very puzzled at the cost of brick in MN since Hebron, the Brick City, is right next door in ND. Oddly brick is cheaper in CA. Since it's mostly used as a decoration and for BBQ pits, it's just not in great demand I suppose. Anything is worth only what people are willing to pay for it after all.

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by Joe_Ryder

I have a house in Northern Minnesota. I spent last year there. It gets well above 85 in summer. If you like Zero, you'll be happy for about 4 months of the year and zero will be balmy.

He was talking about the North Shore of Minnesota, which has notably different weather from, say, Hibbing. If you actually live on the shore, you'll rarely see higher than 85. Winters there are also warmer than inland (but still not warm by any means!)

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by tvdxer

There is a lot of forest around here, so wood is probably a lot cheaper than brick. The brick homes I see tend to be expensive "luxury" homes.

Atlanta is/was built in the middle of a forest. But brick construction around here tends to be either (1) older or (2) expensive.

The ones connected together are townhomes. It seems like a ton have gone up in recent years. You don't have those down South?

There are MANY townhouse developments in the Atlanta metro, some of them quite nice.

I would hope there'd be architectural differences between the two regions! Very different climates!

Yes, there are differences. A lot of older rambler-style houses here are not only brick, but have "carports" rather than attached garages (imagine a one or two-car garage with two or more missing walls).

For most of the year, though, the climates aren't that different. Atlanta doesn't get any hotter or mode humid than Minneapolis does due to its altitude, for example, but the summer extends a month or two in each direction (it's *much* longer), and the wintertime doesn't manifest itself except as a few days of nights in the teens and a nasty ice storm every few years. I've only experienced one of those in my three years in Atlanta, though. Thankfully. And it wasn't a bad one. Minnesota folks who might think of scoffing at southern ice storms -- don't. I lived in the Twin Cities for over 40 year, and I've never seen anything like the relatively mild ice storm we had in fall 2004. Two days of mist with the temperature at 31/32 degrees is really really bad for trees, roads, and power lines. Driving = bad, even for me.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by northbound74

Something I noticed growing up in the south, as far as older homes go, the more expensive houses were tall, two story structures and often sided with brick, but not always. A lot of them Greek Revival, Victorian, or some variation of those. The cheaper homes were made with as much wood as possible, and were one story bungalows.
Very few of them had basements, even with the constant threat of tornadoes...a trend that continues to this day. Freezing pipes aren't a big problem in most winters, though.

FWIW, many of the houses in the NW Atlanta metro have basements (most of the newer developments, I would guess). Ours only has a half-basement (the other half is the garage, which is located under the house), but that's fine.

Brick homes are found all over the south, regardless of what soil is underneath... swamps or highlands. They do have a bad tendency to crack. I've also seen poured foundations settle unevenly to where one side of the room is 2-3 inches lower than the other. Construction quality in parts, certainly not all, of the south have historically been very poor.

I think the reason for so much brick construction can be summed up in one word: termites.

The Twin Cities has not historically had an issue with termites at all (winters are too cold), and they are a complete non-issue while Atlanta is a termite paradise, houses are usually required to have a termite bond when sold, and having decent terminte coverage is a big deal here.