Definition of "GOOD" and "BEST" School Districts PLEASE. (Bloomington: 2009, employment)

[Bongopercylou]

There is a lot of talk on here about what a "good" school district is and what "top" and "best" schools are.

Recently it was posted by GolfGal:
"Apple Valley/Rosemount (Rosemount/Apple Valley/Eagan district is the top district in the state"

This is a very serious statement without citing what "top" means and without citing source. In fact most posts making these grand statements never cite sources and maybe more importantly never explain what "top," "best," or "good" schools mean to them, the person posting.

I'd love for people to weigh in on what "good" "best" or "top" school district means to them. Is it based on test scores? Media stories? Statistics? If it is based on statistics, which ones? Is it based on the types of programs offered that you value? Or does it come down to who has the best football team. I am really beginning to wonder...

[golfgal]

Iwill back up with what I said--this district continually has the top ACT scores in the state and nation, it has received Blue Ribbon commendations for many, many years running (one of the few national recognitions for schools), Expansion magazine does an independent survey of school districts across the nation and has ranked the 196 schools top in MN and in the top 17% in the nation. There is a lot of information out there on rankings and quality if you look. Also, personal experience, I have been a part of many different districts across MN and in a few other states and this is by and far the best of the best.

In MN the difference between good and best, not much--that usually comes down to individual preferences and slightly lower test scores but you are talking a percentage point or two mostly.

If you want the best football team, Eden Prairie no question.

[ozzie679]

It's frustrating when people talk so subjectively about schools. I am guilty of it too. Th "USNews and World Report type rankings" are so subjective.

[EnglishTeacher1919]

What a great question. The idea of what is best, better than and top is widely discussed in many parts of our culture, especially those areas pertaining to our children. I have noticed in the short reading I've done on this site that many people who are quick to criticize certain districts and boast about their own have trouble distinguishing between then/than and their/there/they're and so on. While I found it slightly comical, I find it more disturbing than anything else.

[Bongopercylou]

[quote=golfgal;4043186]Iwill back up with what I said--this district continually has the top ACT scores in the state and nation,

This is incorrect. Lakeville averages 23 (very good). Wayzata averages 25 (better). Who has the best? According to SunTimes it is Saint Louis Park. The Wayzata averages and Lakeville information came from the Sun Times and ThisWeek-Online.com. 2007 information.

It has received Blue Ribbon commendations for many, many years running (one of the few national recognitions for schools),
Many, many years = 6 awards (196 website). I am 99% sure this is part of "no child left behind." Some find this to be controversial in that tends to award districts with higher socioeconomic backgrounds. I suppose that is debatable since the elementary school winners from 2007 (while none occurred in district 196) included Brooten, Bemidji and Park Rapids (two in Bloomington too!). This in accordance with the Blue Ribbon.gov website.

Expansion magazine does an independent survey of school districts across the nation and has ranked the 196 schools top in MN and in the top 17% in the nation.

There is a lot of information out there on rankings and quality if you look.

That was my question - what facts back up these claims about what is best? Obviously some of the comments posted about what the top and best are have been grandiose.

Also, personal experience, I have been a part of many different districts across MN and in a few other states and this is by and far the best of the best.

...the best of what YOU have experienced. Not necessarily the BEST for EVERYONE. Right? Ah- ha! An honest answer. Thank you!

I would love to hear more from people who have opinions about what makes a school district best or good, in THEIR own opinions. If they use statistics, please be specific about their sources. It makes a much more credible opinion and post.

[golfgal]

[quote=Bongopercylou;4044623]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Iwill back up with what I said--this district continually has the top ACT scores in the state and nation,

This is incorrect. Lakeville averages 23 (very good). Wayzata averages 25 (better). Who has the best? According to SunTimes it is Saint Louis Park. The Wayzata averages and Lakeville information came from the Sun Times and ThisWeek-Online.com. 2007 information.

It has received Blue Ribbon commendations for many, many years running (one of the few national recognitions for schools),
Many, many years = 6 awards (196 website). I am 99% sure this is part of "no child left behind." Some find this to be controversial in that tends to award districts with higher socioeconomic backgrounds. I suppose that is debatable since the elementary school winners from 2007 (while none occurred in district 196) included Brooten, Bemidji and Park Rapids (two in Bloomington too!). This in accordance with the Blue Ribbon.gov website.

Expansion magazine does an independent survey of school districts across the nation and has ranked the 196 schools top in MN and in the top 17% in the nation.

There is a lot of information out there on rankings and quality if you look.

That was my question - what facts back up these claims about what is best? Obviously some of the comments posted about what the top and best are have been grandiose.

Also, personal experience, I have been a part of many different districts across MN and in a few other states and this is by and far the best of the best.

...the best of what YOU have experienced. Not necessarily the BEST for EVERYONE. Right? Ah- ha! An honest answer. Thank you!

I would love to hear more from people who have opinions about what makes a school district best or good, in THEIR own opinions. If they use statistics, please be specific about their sources. It makes a much more credible opinion and post.

If you also read the rest of my posts you will find that I also state that you are talking a percentage point or two at most that separates the suburban schools in MN. You will also find that most people that move here from out of state with middle school or higher students usually end up picking a local near their place of employment then pick a district that has good programs according to your child's interests. If you want your kids to be in the best football program in the state, you send them to Eden Prairie, if you want your kids to be in the best band program in the state, you send them to Rosemount. Academically there is basically no difference for your average to above average student in any of the suburban schools so then your next experience goes to personal references.

Lakeville schools are a perfect example, they are great schools however the district is in some pretty tough financial straights right now. They are making some serious budget cuts, activity fees are going up to almost $300/child PER activity so if you have a 3 sport athlete that is also in say debate, you are talking $1200 for that one child to participate in whatever. That is going to make a BIG difference in the participation rates in everything and you are going to find that the overall school experience for most is going to change quite a bit.

Last year Champlin Park had to double their marching band fee, about 1/2 the kids didn't come out. Champlin Park used to be one of the premier band programs in MN, they no longer are. THESE are the kinds of issues that can turn an ok school into one of the 'best' or one of the 'best' into one of the worst.

[Minnehahapolitan]

I was talking to someone about ACT/Test statistics today. I came to the realization that it is more a testament to the kids in the school than the school. Edina and Wayzata perenially tout their ACT scores. Well, their demographics make that a little easier for them. The true test of a school would measure the improvement caused by actual instruction over what a child would natually learn in a mediocre school. This is much harder to quantify, which is why nobody does it. Apple Valley schools are great, but they are great for the teachers and staff that put their hearts into what they do. It is also partly what a parent and what a student puts into their education.

[MNNative]

Originally Posted by EnglishTeacher1919

What a great question. The idea of what is best, better than and top is widely discussed in many parts of our culture, especially those areas pertaining to our children. I have noticed in the short reading I've done on this site that many people who are quick to criticize certain districts and boast about their own have trouble distinguishing between then/than and their/there/they're and so on. While I found it slightly comical, I find it more disturbing than anything else.

lol You picked up on that, too?!

[Bongopercylou]

[quote=golfgal;4046714]

Originally Posted by Bongopercylou

GOLFGAL WRITES: "If you also read the rest of my posts you will find that I also state that you are talking a percentage point or two at most that separates the suburban schools in MN."

But you WROTE that 196 CONTINUALLY has THE TOP ACT test scores in the state and nation in your original post on here. This is simply inaccurate or a typo that you posted it as "continually has the THE TOP scores."

"You will also find that most people that move here from out of state with middle school or higher students usually end up picking a local near their place of employment then pick a district that has good programs according to your child's interests."

Most people WHO move where? How do you know this? Is this your opinion or a fact?

"If you want your kids to be in the best football program in the state, you send them to Eden Prairie, if you want your kids to be in the best band program in the state, you send them to Rosemount. Academically there is basically no difference for your average to above average student in any of the suburban schools so then your next experience goes to personal references."

How dow you know this? Where is this from? You state it as fact. What is/are the source/sources of these facts? I think your answer to my original post is really in this comment from you. A good/top/best district IN YOUR opinion has to do with who has the highest test scores, wins the most band competitions and/or wins the most games. It sounds like your opinion has to do with two key terms: Winning being the first and Highest being the second. Great. Does anyone else out there have a more complex opinion on what defines good/best/top schools? I'm very interested in what that might be.

"Lakeville schools are a perfect example, they are great schools however the district is in some pretty tough financial straights right now. They are making some serious budget cuts, activity fees are going up to almost $300/child PER activity so if you have a 3 sport athlete that is also in say debate, you are talking $1200 for that one child to participate in whatever. That is going to make a BIG difference in the participation rates in everything and you are going to find that the overall school experience for most is going to change quite a bit."

If that is correct, yes, I agree it will make an impact on the learning experience for said student. However, I found this article on Star Tribune which doesn't quite jive. Has something changed since this was posted 2/12/08?
"Budget cuts approved
At a Feb. 12 meeting, the Lakeville school board approved plans to fill a gap of $1.1 million in its 2008-2009 budget. The changes include a hike in many school athletic and activity fees, including a $320 increase to the current $600 "family cap." Most of the increases will take effect in the fall, but athletic fees at high schools and middle schools will go up this spring.

The district will also cut down on clerical help, reduce the number of last-minute teacher hires it makes in the fall and freeze funding levels for some building expenses." - Star Tribune

"Last year Champlin Park had to double their marching band fee, about 1/2 the kids didn't come out. Champlin Park used to be one of the premier band programs in MN, they no longer are. THESE are the kinds of issues that can turn an ok school into one of the 'best' or one of the 'best' into one of the worst."

Where is this information coming from? I find nothing for it online. I'm not saying it isn't true, but based on several of your other posts, I'm willing to guess that it's more hearsay or maybe "personal opinion/experience."

My intent here is not a personal attack on you, GolfGal. My OP really is an honest question because I'm very interested in the ways people view school districts when it comes to good, better, top and best and how that conclusion is made.

But I REALLY do have a problem when someone with the title "MODERATOR" on this forum CONTINUALLY makes exaggerated and uninformed posts. I mean, if you don't have the facts to back up MANY of your claims on this site, please say this is your opinion and don't write like it's fact. ESPECIALLY if it's based largely on PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I think, and it is my own personal opinion, that people who visit the site are looking for valuable and informed information.

[Sarah Maske]

[quote=Bongopercylou;4056022] "Does anyone else out there have a more complex opinion on what defines good/best/top schools? I'm very interested in what that might be."

I am not sure how complex my opinion is but someone made a coincidental comment to me the other day. When talking about what SD they wanted to live in, the client told me what was most important to them was that their children learn along with other children from different backgrounds than their own. They believed this was one of the best life lessons one could learn. It was coincidental to me because I often felt like the best lesson I learned in college had little to do with the academics themselves but more to do with the fact that going to the large Twin Cities U of M campus taught me how to get along with people who were different than me. Sort of the same thing, I guess.

As far as people expressing facts/opinions on this board, I get frustrated with that blurry line too. Well, I guess it's sometimes not that blurry.