St Cloud (Minneapolis, St. Paul, St. Cloud: travel, income, rent)

[warmweather!]

I live in the Minneapolis-St. Paul Metro and it is awesome! Personally, I don't like St. Cloud at all. But hey, maybe you would like it. I would DEFINATLEY say St. Paul is better than St. Cloud. I would also reccomend the suburbs of the twin cities, though.

[ymbk]

So talk to me, Citydataman. Because St Paul, Minneapolis and Rochester are also on our MN "look" list. (I've about written Rochester off the list.)

Tell me the good, the bad and the ugly. Public transportation is something our family does need, so the suburbs may not be an option. As for crime stats, I've seen the numbers. There was a big to-do about the crime rate skyrocketing in the Twin Cities, but when I look at the actual numbers, it doesn't seem that bad. It looks like the actual number was lower than most cities that size, so any increase made the percentages look quite high. Trick of the numbers?

Has mixed-used properties caught on up there yet?

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by ymbk

There was a big to-do about the crime rate skyrocketing in the Twin Cities, but when I look at the actual numbers, it doesn't seem that bad. It looks like the actual number was lower than most cities that size, so any increase made the percentages look quite high. Trick of the numbers?

I don't live there, but I know people who have, and they say it depends very much on the neighborhood.

North Minneapolis is known as a gang haven, is it not?

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by ymbk

So talk to me, Citydataman. Because St Paul, Minneapolis and Rochester are also on our MN "look" list. (I've about written Rochester off the list.)

Tell me the good, the bad and the ugly. Public transportation is something our family does need, so the suburbs may not be an option. As for crime stats, I've seen the numbers. There was a big to-do about the crime rate skyrocketing in the Twin Cities, but when I look at the actual numbers, it doesn't seem that bad. It looks like the actual number was lower than most cities that size, so any increase made the percentages look quite high. Trick of the numbers?

Has mixed-used properties caught on up there yet?

You have to take into consideration when you hear stories about "crime skyrocketing" it is based on what was there before. It might mean that there are 3 more murders in Minneapolis this year then last.

I like St. Cloud "suburbs" but would not live in St. Cloud proper. The St. Cloud area has a lot to offer but I think there are better places to live. There are some major racial issues and that causes a lot of problems. The economy in general in St. Cloud is good, stable and the community is growing. Depending on what your business is, it could most likely support it. Again, there are just better areas to consider.

As for the Twin Cities area, you can probably find pretty much any type of neighborhood you want, it is just a matter of defining it and looking. The southern suburbs has bus transportation into Minneapolis based out of central transportation centers. Other areas might have them as well but I am not familiar with them. There are a lot of carpool set ups around the suburbs as well.

What type of business do you have and more specifically, what type of community are you looking for. What do you want from your schools for the kids, etc. Right now Rosemount/Apple Valley/Eagan district 195 is probably the best over all school district in the state but pretty much every suburban district is going to be good. Rosemount is the fastest growing town in the state right now and they are trying to attract new businesses.

[ymbk]

Hard to say if the activity is any more than in any other town or just so unusual for the area that it's highlighted a great deal in the media. That's what I'm trying to determine. Even here, though, I've seen gang signs flashed on Main Street. The natives are clueless that it's going on. (I saw it often enough in my last town to know what it was.)

Re: the "skyrocketing" crime rate. That's what I suspected - trick of the numbers that don't tell the whole story.

Had "enough" of racial tensions. We have that here. No thanks. I don't think I want to go to the extreme of being the only non-minority in the neighborhood, but I like having people of different cultures around. It makes life richer and more interesting.

The nature of our business is unusual, one of the few in the area, so I'd rather not say exactly what it is here. Let's just call it's specialty retial/food. If the market up there is full, I'm willing to shutter the business and go back into the corporate world. We've already considered that it would be worth it to get back to the real world.

No kids, so schools are not a huge issue. .

[leximarie]

I have lived in St. Cloud my entire life and as a teen I didn't like it, wanted to see the world, but ended up coming back. In my opinion it is the perfect sized city, not too big, not too small. It has everything you would need as far as shopping, restaurants, etc. I would avoid buying a house anywhere near downtown or SCSU campus, but other than that most neighborhoods are very nice. The city is also actively working to preserve the older "core" neighborhoods. It is definately a buyers market right now and you can get a lot more house for your money in the St. Cloud area compared to the Twin Cities area.

Division street is probably the worst for traffic but if you can avoid it, the rest of the area is fine. Just as in any other town, things could be better, but it's not much to complain about.

SCSU is a typical university, and I doubt anyone in St. Cloud other than those that live near it are affected by its "party" reputation.

As for high schools Apollo and Tech are tops for education, but if you are looking for a less culturally diverse high school the nearby suburbs of Sartell and Sauk Rapids would solve your problem.

The economy here is doing well, ING Direct just announced that they will be adding 400 new jobs to downtown St. Cloud. There are several other projects happening in the new Opportunity Drive industrial park area, including (I think) Arctic Cat (or some other snowmobile company).

I hope that helped answer your questions. I just wanted to rebut what some other people had written, because honestly they were way off base.

[ymbk]

Always good to have other POVs.

I'm a realist. I figure there is no such thing as the "perfect" place and that every town has its postives and negative aspects. But the more I can find out about a place, the better I can decide if the not-so-good aspects are things I'm willing to live with. And since I've lived in some towns with "real" party schools, so far I'm not scared off by a little frat activity.

Cultural diversity is definitely NOT a problem in my book. I have firends from many differnet countries and want to keep it that way.

[copasgrande]

I hope you will still be able to see this (or are still checking). I will tell you that in the time i have been living in st. cloud (2 months), I have noticed quite a few privately owned businesses closing down and chain after chain opening up. After all the busnesses opening you would think it would be easier to find a job, it is not. I am one of several people I know actively seeking work and getting no response. I have personally never encountered this before (and I have made a few major moves so i do have a basis for comparison.) The climate socially is kind of cold, It does appear to be a little resistant to outsiders. I have seen alot of eye rolling when someone is a little to "ethnic". Just today i watched management escort a hispanic man out the door of a business in front of many cutomers for something minor. at the same business i had heard cashiers making negitive comments about co-workers of another religion. i am not a member of a racial or religious minority, but i take offense to the kind of behavior. I am told the public transportation is quite limited. There seems to be a bit too much violence in the downtown areas, (something i would recommened googling if you have'nt yet, two odd deaths, one recently, i belive the other not too long ago.). and there is a odd legal complication with local police. (might be worth googling too). In closing I should say that unfortunatly i do not plan to make st. cloud my home but i certainly do not post this with any sort of malice, just thought you could use the info.

btw. i have lived in st. paul and found it more welcoming to cultures and independant businesses. There are several areas in st. paul where the streets are lined with local businesses and people spend time and money there, or at least they did when i last lived there in 2001.

[MidniteBreeze]

I think someone else in another thread summed up St. Cloud pretty well:
"a small town with 50,000 people."

I've never lived there but have been there enough to have seen how its grown/changed over the years. I think it's just one of those places that boomed overnight and the locals are still scratching their heads, wondering what happened to their quiet, relatively isolated, little "white" midwestern town.

I agree that the new mix of people could be a real positive and make living there much more interesting than it was 20 years ago, but I just don't think the town was ready for that kind of change, at least not that quickly.

It still has a lot of plusses (proximity to lakes/forests, not far from the Twin Cities for "big city" activities, lots of places to shop/eat) but I don't think it would be my first choice to live, at least not right now.

[snowlandcook]

I've lived in St Cloud for 20 years, so I feel qualified to provide the detailed nitty-gritty you are looking for.

The city is divided into quarters: NE, NW, SE, and SW. All have good and bad areas within them, and one is not better than the other. Most of the new housing areas (built in the last 10 years) are built on former farmland (flat, barren). If you want trees or contour to your property, you'd be happier in one of the surrounding areas (Sartell or Cold Spring, for example).

There are historic homes near the university and/or along the river that are very nice if you like old homes. For a good, solid 1960s or 70s house, the Centennial area (NW side) is nice. For moderate 1980s and 90s homes (split entries, 2-stories, ramblers), the Westwood area (NW) is nice. For 1990s upscale homes, look at Tiffany Park (SW side), and for executive homes Walden Woods (SW) or Mill Creek (NW). The east side is more polarized economically.

It is very safe in SC if you exercise common-sense cautious behavior.

It is not particularly diverse (ethnically), but people of different races live amicably next door to one another.

The biggest annoyance here is the infrastructure. The town is designed as a small town and city planners have not adjusted for growth. Traffic is absolutely, without a doubt, the worst I have experienced anywhere. None of the traffic lights (left-hand turn signals) are the same. From one corner to the next, the system for turning is different--and there IS a light at darn near every corner. Sometimes I'll sit at a red light, and traffic in 3 directions at that light will be stopped. Yes, only one side will be allowed to go--and generally, there's no-one trying to travel that way. So we sit and sit and sit. No-one moves! It's stupid (and a waste of gas).

Shopping is wonderful here. There is a large mall and a lot of independent businesses. You can get anything you want here--and at a reasonable price.

Schools are good. There is a variety of both public and private (religious-affiliated) schools. We have 2 high schools (Apollo HIgh School on the north side and Technical High School on the south). Apollo uses modular scheduling (like scheduling classes at college) while Tech schedules classes traditionally. There are also 2 junior high schools (North and South), and many neighborhood elementary schools. Middle schools are newer and larger, drawing from multile areas. And SCSU is a great college!

We also have a laarge number of parks and recreational activities. Whitney Park (NW side) is very large--baseball, softball, and soccer games are scheduled there from morning to night every day throughout the summer. There are parks along the river--Wilson Park (NE) and Riverside Park (SE) are the largest ones. Oh--and Riverside Park has a Frisbee Golf course (as do several other parks in the area). Our city pride is evident in Munsinger Gardens/Clemens Rose Gardens--2 adjoining, beautiful parks (SE) with tons and tons of flowers--and it's all free. There are also parks with swings and open playing fields located in almost every neighborhood. Quarry Park is new--also very nice.

In the winter, city workers flood the parks to create ice skating rinks.

I hope this helps!