Best Area for Downtown Living? (Minneapolis, St. Paul: mortgage, environment, student loan) - Minnesota (MN) - City-Data Forum

ScranBarre · 03-07-2007, 08:04 PM

Hello to all of my friends in Minnesota!

After years of trying to envision my hometown as becoming a more "perfect fit" to no avail, I'm finally desperate, out of hope, and depressed---I'm ready for a change of scenery and a friendlier environment full of people who are more eager to get to know you as a person rather than judge you based upon your superficial characteristics.

I think Minnesota fits the bill for me.

I've ALWAYS admired and loved your state, from your wonderfully-harsh winters to your beautiful lakes to your well-educated population and everything in between. (To think I've never even been there!)

As such, it was a no-brainer for me to instantly choose Minnesota as my intended state of future residency. After graduating from King's College in 2009 here in PA, I hope to move to Minnesota for graduate school. I thrive in urban environments, and I'm only interested in moving to a college-town in your fair state that has "urban amenities" (decent array of arts, culture, entertainment, and shopping readily-available). I'm partial to Minneapolis, but the high cost of housing TERRIFIES me, as I'll be saddled with high student loan debt and don't want to likewise have a $250,000 mortgage on my shoulders for an average city home!

Please make a selection from the list of cities at top to help me narrow down my list based upon the following criteria, and then reply with why you chose that city:

-I'm a maculine gay guy (I don't need to be in a "gay-friendly" environment, just one in which people won't pull out a shotgun and threaten me on account of it, as has happened here in PA in the past).

-I'm an aspiring CPA (I'd imagine I'd have career opportunities available in any Minnesota city, but you know the state better than I do!)

-I need a college with an MBA program, and hopefully one that confers Ph.D.'s in Economics (although I'm still uncertain about progression past my Master's Degree at this point in time).

-I'm a safe driver, but I'd prefer to drive as little as possible (Hence the urge to live downtown and be able to walk to most needs).

-I'm an avid runner (I'd enjoy an area that has sidewalks, as they are few and far between in PA).

Thanks in advance for all of your help!!!

-Paul (SWB!)

Ben Around · 03-09-2007, 02:06 PM

Hi Scranton--

I voted Mpls for you, even though I live in St Paul. Downtown St Paul is up and coming with lots of new condo and loft housing, but it's got a ways to go before it'll feel like a real liveable downtown neighborhood. Still feels like the streets are rolled up after 5:00 unless there is a game or concert at the Xcel Center, or something going on at the Ordway.

Mpls. downtown is much more vibrant, and more self-contained. Transit service is much better in Mpls. Mpls has the larger gay community, but both both cities are very tolerant. St. Paul downtown rents are lower. Crime is higher in downtown Mpls than downtown St Paul. Shopping's much better in DT Mpls. Architecturally, St Paul is much more interesting, largely because the city's fortunes cooled in the 1920s and never came completely back, so there wasn't as much pressure to "redevelop" the downtown the way Mpls did.

Not much true downtown living in the other cities you mentioned, they are very automobile oriented.

There are MBA programs in the TC, at UM and St. Thomas Univ., for sure, not sure about others. When you graduate, you probably will not have to move to get a job, unlike the other places you are thinking of. My son graduated in Duluth last year (a beautiful city) but wound up getting a job here in the TC.

snowlandcook · 03-09-2007, 03:57 PM

Small world! I've read your posts on the PA site as I was a finalist for a job in Millersville and was seeking info about the area. I enjoyed your photos of a park in PA--very beautiful.

Anyway, I would vote for Mpls, too, though SP is also very nice. Can't go wrong with either one. They really are twin cities--quite complementary to one another. When you live in one, you will find yourself frequently visiting the other (even if you don't have a car).

In particular, I would encourage you to check out the "Uptown" area, which is a hip, urban area open to diversity. Here is a link that may help you:
http://www.uptownminneapolis.com/enter/

Consider renting, which is cheaper than buying and which allows you time to get to know the area before sinking money into a home.

If you want culture, the Twin Cities is your best bet. While the other MN towns you mentioned are quite nice, none of them feel as cultural or as pleasantly urban as the Twin Cities.

Good luck.

Yorkie_Mom · 03-09-2007, 04:37 PM

Scranton, I think as far as Minnesota you would find that the best place would be in Minneapolis or Saint Paul, I would lean more towards MPLS. You would be able to find so much to do, and yes you can even find a mate in either city.
The gay thing don't bother me, you are still human, and I think that gays are easier to get along with, in my opinion. You will have choices in either city as far as things to do and people to see. Minnesota is a great place if you can handle the cold. Scranton you would be able to handle it here, and if you do come this way, WELCOME TO MINNESOTA!!!!! Take care and talk to you soon. Yorkie

The Icy River Vagabond · 03-09-2007, 05:07 PM

Detroit, yep, Detroit would be good for you.

ScranBarre · 03-09-2007, 07:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Ben Around

Hi Scranton--

I voted Mpls for you, even though I live in St Paul. Downtown St Paul is up and coming with lots of new condo and loft housing, but it's got a ways to go before it'll feel like a real liveable downtown neighborhood. Still feels like the streets are rolled up after 5:00 unless there is a game or concert at the Xcel Center, or something going on at the Ordway.

You just described Scranton to a "T!"

There are several new mixed-use projects on the horizon here as far as loft housing and condos above retail/restaurants are concerned, but the downtown is very much still a "9-5" area. The Scranton Cultural Center draws in crowds of suburbanites in the evenings, but these culture yuppies are all the types to park their car, experience their performance, and then retreat back to their cul-de-sac enclaves---the city truly hasn't made that great of an effort to promote the whole "Stay and Play" type of idea. As a budding CPA who will likely be working many evenings sometimes until 8 PM or so during tax season, it would be nice to have a place open at 9 PM somewhere in town to head with my partner to grab a quick bite and discuss our days.

It doesn't sound like St. Paul fits that bill (just yet), nor does Scranton at this point (but it may in ten years with the continued influence pouring in from NYC).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Mpls. downtown is much more vibrant, and more self-contained. Transit service is much better in Mpls. Mpls has the larger gay community, but both both cities are very tolerant. St. Paul downtown rents are lower. Crime is higher in downtown Mpls than downtown St Paul. Shopping's much better in DT Mpls. Architecturally, St Paul is much more interesting, largely because the city's fortunes cooled in the 1920s and never came completely back, so there wasn't as much pressure to "redevelop" the downtown the way Mpls did.

Transit service is a big "plus" in my book. I could envision myself living in an apartment in Downtown Minneapolis, donning a pair of running shorts, and then hopping a bus to the Lake Harriet area for a relaxing run around the lake to gawk at the beautiful, historic, upscale homes (or so I've heard). Once again, the "gay" thing isn't that important---as long as people in the Twin Cities aren't inclined to pull a gun on me or make me feel uncomfortable just for that reason, then I'm okay with having neighbors who are 100% straight. I grew up in an area where people are repressed and afraid to "let people in" for fear that they'll be ostracized for not "conforming." Apparently, the Twin Cities are a good melting pot of sorts with people living harmoniously.

Finally, while I'm an architectural buff and urban explorer who thrives on early 20th-Century architecture, I don't necessarily need to be immersed in that to be happy. From what I can tell, the Minneapolis skyline seems to be decidedly "modern" and screams "look at me" with massive glass skyscrapers while St. Paul's skyline is a bit more "reserved." Scranton is replete with stained glass windows, turrets, wraparound porches, cupelas, widows' walks, etc. on seemingly every other block, so living in a "glass city" like Minneapolis would indeed be a disappointment, but I could get over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Not much true downtown living in the other cities you mentioned, they are very automobile oriented.

I still plan to own an automobile (more than likely a Corolla or a Civic Hybrid), but I just don't want to utilize it nearly as much as I do now. Living here in suburbia, I commute around 300 miles per week to college, work, committee meetings, etc. in the city. I often find myself overstressed from battling traffic for so long that I crave being able to walk to most conveniences, or at least be able to take a bus, taxi, subway, or light commuter rail to many destinations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Around

There are MBA programs in the TC, at UM and St. Thomas Univ., for sure, not sure about others. When you graduate, you probably will not have to move to get a job, unlike the other places you are thinking of. My son graduated in Duluth last year (a beautiful city) but wound up getting a job here in the TC.

After further research, Duluth is definitely a city I'd love to consider. I've been reading about it being basically a hillside city rife with historic architecture overlooking beautiful Lake Superior. I also hear it has a lot of cultural amenities for a city of its size, low crime, and friendly people. As a budding CPA, I'd have the option of establishing my own practice in Downtown Duluth if I were unable to find employment there, so jobs wouldn't be an issue. However, the odds of me finding a soul mate are probably far less in Duluth than they would be in the Twin Cities (TC as you people call them), so that's one thing holding me back. I also hear that nearby Cook County on the North Shore is a paradise for outdoorsy people (such as yours truly) who love to trail run, hike, mountain bike, and camp along with a growing arts community in Grand Marais. This is another plus for Duluth. I've definitely narrowed down my options to either Minneapolis or Duluth at this point.

ScranBarre · 03-09-2007, 07:41 PM

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