Employers are exploiting the unemployed (fit in, income, live)

[cdubs3201]

Originally Posted by Ottie28

Believe it or not, with the company that offered me the base with no bonus for 10 months, the owner asked me if I had children in my interview. Not only is that illegal, I thought it was very reckless on his part. And sorry, but if I were a man, he NEVER would have asked that.
I think employers really do believe they have a lot of leverage right now - especially to take chances like that.

I feel like companies do bully in terms of offered salary and commissions, but the bigger companies change the commission structure constantly.

I was in IT Hardware/software sales for a large fortune 500 giant reseller out of Chicago. Right out of college it had a decent base, but since I started there, they had changed the commission structure 3 times, moved my accounts completely and had me start from scratch twice. I started in a small business role, performed well enough to move to a large business sales role which had more earnings potential, but they didn't tell me I'd have to give up my clients I had earned over the last year, but I had to do it. Then 10 months later they changed my district lines and moved all my accounts to other people and I had gotten no accounts in return. After the promotion, I was only on a small base salary for 1 year until I was to be on a full commission plan, however I had lost all my accounts, so I would've had nothing coming in. I had to leave.

I took a job at a 3PL (3rd party logistics) company. I made sure they wouldn't move my accounts and they went over the commission structure with me. It was a decent base salary (just enough to get by on) + 5% commission. Then when you hit a certain sales goal you go to NO salary + 20% commission. Well the economy tanked, no one was hitting the sales goal, so they changed the compensation structure, however it was just a small increase in base salary and maintaining the same 5% commission. I've been in the top of my sales class and I haven't brought in more than $2,000 in 10 months in commission, that's how weak it is. Partly as well they didn't mention I wouldn't be compensated until the customer PAID IN. So I wouldn't see the money for at least 2 months, maybe 3 with how slow some companies are paying in. If they don't pay in within 120 days I don't get paid on it. I do my own collections, which wasn't mentioned in the interview at all.

I've been looking to get back into IT sales, but that market I hear is pretty rough right now and it seems pointless as the next company is just going to screw me because I'm a young (only 3 years work experience) man in downtown chicago and there's about a million other guys right out of college who are willing to take a crap job just to get a job and start building experience. I'm losing the good jobs to people who are 10 years experienced, and I'm only getting offers from shady start up companies with shady commission structures.

I'm seriously considering just selling all my stuff on ebay and moving to a shack in the woods. I'd be a lot happier and I could probably make more money growing weed and selling it to other depressed workers like myself.

[Huckleberry3911948]

yes employers do have a license to exploit us, and we gave them that license. american labor is anti labor, we hate unions.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Hi Ottie28,

Statistically, it seems people are worth more when they are switching jobs versus unemployed and looking for a new job. That should not make a difference but it does. I'm guessing it has more to do with the employers negotiating power than any unemployment stigma (especially in this soft market).

I'd attempt to find out if your perspective employers offer is typical of what other sales people are receiving at the company. Generally speaking, sales pay plans are standard inside of a company. Therefore the guarantee and a small base range are the items that are negotiable. "Sell them" why you are worth it and why you are more expensive. But if the company is losing $$'s, they will look to put the guarantee on your back and not theirs. I absolutely think that in sales, you can be much more forceful in an interview when it comes to wages (assuming you are positive and full of energy) it's sales. Explain why you are worth more.


If all else fails and if I was in your shoes, I'd take something for less and continue to look at other options. Don't forget, your negotiating powers skyrocket when you perform. Don't forget, sales also means selling your internal customers (boss, owner, inside sales, etc). If you hit the ground running and show some fast results, you can re-negotiate if you approach it in the right way. In sales, you influence the companies bottom line and therefore employers are willing to pay more for that skill. Stick with high margin products like software as the company can afford to pay higher commissions.

What industry were you in before?? Were you in inside sales or outside sales?? Can you tap any relationships from other sales people that you know from your past industry???

[Ottie28]

Cdubs

TOTALLY get where you're coming from. Once a year every big outfit gets a chance to take yet another chunk out of their sales people. I've been through it myself and seen it many times. Once they have you hooked they can really stick it to you. Which is why I was going for small private companies this time around. But it seems to be the same deal even with them.

See you in the woods my friend....

[cdubs3201]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Hi Ottie28,

Statistically, it seems people are worth more when they are switching jobs versus unemployed and looking for a new job. That should not make a difference but it does. I'm guessing it has more to do with the employers negotiating power than any unemployment stigma (especially in this soft market).

I'd attempt to find out if your perspective employers offer is typical of what other sales people are receiving at the company. Generally speaking, sales pay plans are standard inside of a company. Therefore the guarantee and a small base range are the items that are negotiable. "Sell them" why you are worth it and why you are more expensive. But if the company is losing $$'s, they will look to put the guarantee on your back and not theirs. I absolutely think that in sales, you can be much more forceful in an interview when it comes to wages (assuming you are positive and full of energy) it's sales. Explain why you are worth more.


If all else fails and if I was in your shoes, I'd take something for less and continue to look at other options. Don't forget, your negotiating powers skyrocket when you perform. Don't forget, sales also means selling your internal customers (boss, owner, inside sales, etc). If you hit the ground running and show some fast results, you can re-negotiate if you approach it in the right way. In sales, you influence the companies bottom line and therefore employers are willing to pay more for that skill. Stick with high margin products like software as the company can afford to pay higher commissions.

What industry were you in before?? Were you in inside sales or outside sales?? Can you tap any relationships from other sales people that you know from your past industry???

Depending on if he's selling the software from the developer, or as a reseller, I can tell you selling software as a reseller there is very little margin.

[cdubs3201]

Originally Posted by Ottie28

Cdubs

TOTALLY get where you're coming from. Once a year every big outfit gets a chance to take yet another chunk out of their sales people. I've been through it myself and seen it many times. Once they have you hooked they can really stick it to you. Which is why I was going for small private companies this time around. But it seems to be the same deal even with them.

See you in the woods my friend....

Can I ask you something? Has it always been like this? Is no company loyal to their salespeople? At least the ones who do well?

I don't know enough of what it was like because we've been in a recession ever since I graduated college, but were companies always like this or has it just gotten to be this way recently with the recession and all?

Oh, and the company I work for now who pays me terrible compensation is starting to demand I work late and on saturdays.....I'd rather take my own life.

[Ottie28]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Hi Ottie28,

Statistically, it seems people are worth more when they are switching jobs versus unemployed and looking for a new job. That should not make a difference but it does.

What industry were you in before?? Were you in inside sales or outside sales?? Can you tap any relationships from other sales people that you know from your past industry???

I have always been in inside sales and in these two situations, I would have been the first inside person hired. So it made it difficult to gage where they were at, but also made it more critical for them to hire the right person. I do very well in interviews because, as you mention, I have a lot of positive energy and a history that backs up all of my claims in terms of work ethic, performance, profit generation etc.

I am using any and all contacts I have but like most people in my position, there isn't much out there right now. So far, every job I was very interested in, I have gotten interviews for. I just have not been able to get an offer I, or any other person in my place, could live with. As for taking any job for now and continue looking, I've considered that as well. It seems unethical to allow a company to invest so much time and money in me knowing I'd just turn around and take off on them - although these last two experiences have weakened my resolve for sure on that front. But as my husband pointed out, just from a logistics stand point, it would be close to impossible. These days, you have on average 4 in-person interviews and it would take a few months to earn even close to the time off that that would require to manage even on a minimally discrete level.
I don't know, I'm at a total loss at this point.

[Ottie28]

Cdubs

from 2000 to 2006 I worked for an awesome company. privately held but growing fast. always said i would work for them forever. unfortunately, they were a software reseller, not the manufacturer and were eventually forced to sell to a big outfit. i think they're out there, but they are so rare, it's like finding a pearl in an oyster.

[Ottie28]

Oh, and Cdubs, 2 jobs ago the president's famous quote was "that's what evenings and weekends are for" so I get you on the Saturday stuff. It's unbelievable.

[tindo80]

Good luck to you friend. I am still in grad school myself, and although there are places that have it worst, I am fairly sure I am going to have to move after graduating to find a job. I applied for a Coffee Barista job for summer work (my degrees field is pretty choked in the TC...this should be a time for internships, but no ones hiring and most are laying people off), and my interviewer told me that all but one person who worked there had college degrees. 1/3 of the staff either had or was finishing a masters. This is a freaking 'slightly higher than minimum wage' coffeehouse job, 39 hours or less, and almost all the staff had college degrees. Insanity! Thats how bad it is here.

Things are pretty bad if a college degree can barely get people service part time jobs that 10 years ago would have gone to high school students.