Mahtomedi Schools (St. Paul, Woodbury, Maplewood: homes, rent, income)

[mazzer]

Hi Everyone,

I posted some time ago about nice areas, soccer districts, victorian homes, nice small town feel etc etc. I got some great responses, as did my wife in other posts.

Mahtomedi was mentioned as a great area with soccer districts and good elementary schools. Stillwater was another area. However, I'd like to clarify the good school part of the post. When I drill down on class size I notice both the elementary schools in Mahtomedi have class sizes 20+, one only goes to PK-3, the other is K-6. But I can't see a middle school in the area?

If I compare this data to White Bear Lake/Township area and Stillwater districts I see 12 kids in the White Bear Lakes district and 15-20 depending on where you look in Stillwater. Hudson seems similar to Stillwater with 15 kids per class approx.

From my perspective as an ex-teacher the more kids in a class the harder it gets to spend 1 on 1 time? Would that not mean that Mahtomedi isn't the best? Or is it just that they have the best facilities and some super teachers??

Could someone please clarify this?
Thanks Maz-

[golfgal]

As far as quality of education in the districts you have mentioned, Mahtomedi consistently comes out on top of that list with Stillwater not far behind. White Bear Lake isn't too far behind that either. Hudson is a distant 4th. I would personally drop Hudson from your list all together. The schools there do not have a good reputation at all. There are a lot of problems in the high schools there.

As for class size, I wouldn't get too hung up on the difference between a class of 15 kids vs a class of 20 kids. It really all comes down to the kids and the teachers. Our oldest was in a class of 15-18 all through elementary school and his grade as a whole was pretty tough to deal with. There were several boys in the class that were down right mean and the girls were VERY catty. Our twins had a very large class, 25-28 kids and EVERY teacher they had said the same thing--it was the best class of kids they ever taught--there were no real problem kids, they all got along, great group of kids.

I find it hard to believe that White Bear Lake really had class sizes of 12 kids. At one time there were 2 high schools in White Bear and they closed one many years ago for budget reasons. How do they rank their class sizes? Is it teacher/student or is it teacher/aide/student?

Again, if you look at the graduation rates, test scores, % of kids going to college and the quality of the colleges those kids attend, Mahtomedi and Stillwater are your best choices on that side of the cities. Since soccer seems to be a deciding factor, Mahtomedi soccer is one of the most successful in the state so it seems the logical choice.

[golfgal]

I just looked at the Mahtomedi school website. It looks like they have a K-2 building, 3-5 building, a middle school and the high school. All the kids in the district would attend one school for k-2 then they would move to the 3-5 building, etc. There are many districts that do this for space reasons, not a big deal.

[mazzer]

I've got to admit my research is limited to the realtor sites that I use. Although I do use about 4 sites and cross reference them a lot. What you say about the demographics is true, White Bear might very well be using assistants to bring their stats down teacher/pupil ratio wise.

Thanks for the responses though, I'm going to be visiting in July and I'm really looking forwards to seeing Mahtomedi, Stillwater and White Bear Lake for myself. You are right we are looking for soccer orientated areas though, its just we have limited funds and they don't go too far in Mahtomedi!!

[BeckyS]

If you have limited funds, you won't fit in to any of the school districts you're looking at! Make sure also that you are seeing class size numbers and not student to teacher ratio - they are very different numbers! My daughter is entering 7th grade in White Bear Lake schools and her classes average about 25 students each all the way since elementary school. One thing that I'm disappointed with is the utter lack of diversity (racial or economic) in our school district - which is actually more diverse than Stillwater or Mahtomedi. My daughter has friends who are very involved with soccer and Corner Kick soccer (private teams and training) is just a few miles away.

My 2 nieces attend Stillwater schools, one is the same grade as my daughter and one is a grade younger. I can definitively say that my daughter's school experiences have been more positive than those of my nieces. My sister's kids get next to no 1-on-1 help and they struggle with school. My sister is continually being pressured to have her kids identified for special education services even though their grades are average.

I don't know much about Mahtomedi schools except that most all of the children attending them are white and wealthy.

What your child gets out of their education will be equivalent to what you put into it. My daughter attended the only Title 1 (high poverty) school in WBL for elementary school and she routinely scores in the 85th-95th percentiles on standardized tests. If you are involved with your kids' education, they will succeed, regardless of what school they attend. An additional note about judging the success of a school on their test scores: NCLB testing allows school districts to not test or not report the test results of their special education students. This leads to an over-identification of students and can help a district appear to be "succeeding" when in fact they are just excluding students who bring the score down.

[jbert]

Mahtomedi is expensive; it wasn't always. The quaint, lakeside feel is very in right now. That, combined with people having fixed up their old cottages (in some cases tearing down and builidng new) has caused the area to become more expensive than it used to be. The school district has a really good rep, but my sis in law's kids don't get any homework (2nd and 5th grades) and neither is at grade level. The school probably doesn't qualify for Title 1. The boys in my nephew's class (5th grade) are very mean---they rate all the other boys in the class. Yes, these are boys. All white, not 1 Asian, East Indian, or African American. Stillwater is a nice area; however, also not diverse. A friend of mine said the high school has a lot of drugs because of the affluent kids going there. We are happy in North St. Paul/Maplewood/Oakdale. Very diverse, but dedicated staff; only 2 elementary schools in the district are without Title 1. They are Skyview and Eagle Point. (in Oakdale ---they encompass folks in Oakdale and Woodbury, so richer populations.) Are you really using the soccer rep as one of your main criteria for moving your family? Remember to keep things in perspective. Good luck in your home search.

[mazzer]

Thanks for the response, we're looking for a mixture of things, two main things, good schools, the other affordable homes.

No the soccer thing is my hobby, I coach in the AYSO and my 9 year old girl plays quite well. So it would be nice to find somewhere that does that sort of thing again. If I ever manage to get this job, (still on hold due to finances) I am planning on starting up an AYSO division in St. Paul.

Out of interest you refer to title 1 in your post, what is title 1?

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by mazzer

Thanks for the response, we're looking for a mixture of things, two main things, good schools, the other affordable homes.

No the soccer thing is my hobby, I coach in the AYSO and my 9 year old girl plays quite well. So it would be nice to find somewhere that does that sort of thing again. If I ever manage to get this job, (still on hold due to finances) I am planning on starting up an AYSO division in St. Paul.

Out of interest you refer to title 1 in your post, what is title 1?

Title 1 is a classification of Special Education and schools listed as Title 1 receive special funding for that. Usually you find Title 1 schools in low income areas with programming to help students that are not at grade level.

[mazzer]

Thanks Golfgal.

Out of interest its the middle of October, what's the weather like during the day and at nights now, temperature and conditions wise?

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by mazzer

Thanks Golfgal.

Out of interest its the middle of October, what's the weather like during the day and at nights now, temperature and conditions wise?

It was 60° today, low of 45°.