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Old 01-31-2013, 03:55 PM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,123 posts, read 3,403,293 times
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Sam's Club - leaving Jackson, heading to Madison
For some reason Madison seems to think it's a joke and a "win" to cannibalize a business from Jackson. But of course the region doesn't grow.
Idiot councilman Whitwell says "To pull the plug on the city of Jackson without having conversations with the city of Jackson officials would be a PR nightmare for them." Well, they left, and didn't bother ringing your phone. So far, no bad PR.
Idiot mayor Johnson shrugs his shoulders and says "Well, the city's focus needs to be on finding another wholesale club to replace it. It was business decision by Wal-Mart." In other words, I didn't know they were leaving until you all did, and I was too ignorant to foresee this happening and try to PROACTIVELY help Wal-Mart address their concerns.

Haverty's furniture - leaving Mississippi altogether
From the Clarion-Ledger, Haverty's says "They are only interested in markets with growth potential." In other words, not Jackson OR Madison.

JSU opening a campus in Madison - Madison mayor is angry
Most likely she is angry because to convince Tulane to open a branch, she promised they would have no competition As well Tulane is paying rent to the city of Madison for the building they use as a campus. Quite a lot of egg on her face...

Farish Street - stalled, a joke for 20 years
Old Capital Green - stalled
Convention Hotel - a non-starter
Downtown Arena - a non-starter
Nothing more to say here, these five non-projects are an embarressment to anyone who calls themselves a "city planner."

And then the mayor of Oklahoma City, which experienced hitting rock bottom after the terrorist bombing, but has been able to recover, gave a speech here. His main tenet - The entire area needs to work TOGETHER. "You can't be a suburb of NOTHING."
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
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Jackson doesn't have much in the way of commercial retail. ALL of the good shopping is in Ridgeland, Madison, or Flowood. Jackson has 1 mall which is on life support and isn't even a real mall with all the local urban shops in there. Jackson has no movie theaters in the city limits. I could go on, but it wouldn't look good. Downtown Jackson is actually pretty nice, for the most part, but the roads are TERRIBLE! They're third world almost! I'll never take my car to downtown Jackson again, I'd rather park it and walk.

As Jackson continues to decay, Ridgeland and Madison continue to grow. Some serious investment of wealth and programs to rebuild and retool Jackson need to go into place. This city is becoming a mini Detroit, where the suburbs reign supreme and the inner city suffers with blight and corruption. I find Meridian to be becoming a mini Jackson, except Meridian doesn't really have suburbs for the retailers to retreat to.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:42 PM
 
Location: PNW, Aspen, NY: CPS & Meadow Lane
3,280 posts, read 4,460,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
Sam's Club - leaving Jackson, heading to Madison
For some reason Madison seems to think it's a joke and a "win" to cannibalize a business from Jackson. But of course the region doesn't grow.
Idiot councilman Whitwell says "To pull the plug on the city of Jackson without having conversations with the city of Jackson officials would be a PR nightmare for them." Well, they left, and didn't bother ringing your phone. So far, no bad PR.
Idiot mayor Johnson shrugs his shoulders and says "Well, the city's focus needs to be on finding another wholesale club to replace it. It was business decision by Wal-Mart." In other words, I didn't know they were leaving until you all did, and I was too ignorant to foresee this happening and try to PROACTIVELY help Wal-Mart address their concerns.

Haverty's furniture - leaving Mississippi altogether
From the Clarion-Ledger, Haverty's says "They are only interested in markets with growth potential." In other words, not Jackson OR Madison.

JSU opening a campus in Madison - Madison mayor is angry
Most likely she is angry because to convince Tulane to open a branch, she promised they would have no competition As well Tulane is paying rent to the city of Madison for the building they use as a campus. Quite a lot of egg on her face...

Farish Street - stalled, a joke for 20 years
Old Capital Green - stalled
Convention Hotel - a non-starter
Downtown Arena - a non-starter
Nothing more to say here, these five non-projects are an embarressment to anyone who calls themselves a "city planner."

And then the mayor of Oklahoma City, which experienced hitting rock bottom after the terrorist bombing, but has been able to recover, gave a speech here. His main tenet - The entire area needs to work TOGETHER. "You can't be a suburb of NOTHING."
When I lived there, my impression was that Madison wanted Saks, Neiman's, and Tiffany, not a bunch of big box cheap stores. But Mississippi hardly has enough affluent people to support those upmarket chains. Would have been nice. Tiffany's is a bit downmarket for me, but having a Saks Fifth Avenue and a Neiman Marcus in Madison would possibly have kept us in Mississippi. Their absence here in Portland makes me feel, sometimes, that we're in just another backwater. I have to say, though, that going to San Francisco from Lake O is a much more pleasant shopping jaunt than was schlepping down to New Orleans from Madison.

However, the big box cheap stores are what people in Mississippi can afford: so that's what Madison ended up with. Those stores announced their intent to move to Madison, without being 'cannibalized' by Madison. I don't think you understand how desperate retailers are to get away from incompetent/corrupt police and city officials, incompetent/corrupt employees, and trouble-making/theft-prone customers. Jackson is hardly unique in that regard.

There is a reason why Detroit is a "food desert" (bereft of grocery chains). It's not because Detroiters don't have the money to spend on groceries. I mean, their EBT cards are loaded for at least two hundred Dollars a month. And the sort of items inner city people buy are high-profit items for the stores. Poor people tend to splurge, while at the other end of the spectrum, the rich are combing the grocery stores for bargains. It's just that that the Transaction Cost in Detroit (and Jackson) is a tad high, once you factor in shoplifting/corruption/security/incompetence...

We've all seen the grocery carts of (some) inner-city types, piled high with expensive processed cereals, jumbo shrimp, frozen pizza, fizzy drinks. By contrast, I know multimillionaires in Madison who are in a tizzy right this minute, stocking their pantries with 75%-off Passover foods (especially the Methodists, for some reason...maybe it's a Scottish thing...)("Palm Hearts! A Dollar-seven!"), and other millionaires who delight in comparing how long they can make a four-pack of bargain bathroom tissue last (years). And I know people in Madison who eat on a Dollar a day: still, even with inflation. But the difference that makes them valuable customers is that they don't make trouble when they shop. Trouble costs money.

And please consider that people coming in from the countryside love shopping in a safe community like Madison, but are less willing to venture into a place like Jackson. In fact, I've noticed that people from small towns and rural locations tend to avoid interstate exits leading to inner cities. They've grown up knowing that the outermost suburbs are the safe places. If I were Sam's Club, I'd be after the farmers, who come into town and spend hundreds at a "wholesale" place, stocking-up. And the best way to get the affluent/honest farm folk is to locate in a place that's not scary. I sincerely doubt Madison had to do any 'luring'.

As for the "loss" of Sam's, maybe Jackson should regard that as an opportunity for small business owners. The absence of the big sharks means the waters are safe for the small fish, again.

To me, the very name, Haverty's, screams "Potato Famine". It sounds shabby and downmarket, and I doubt that people in Madison County would have set foot in the place. Wasn't there a cheap furniture store in the Madison building next to the theatre, now occupied by Miskelly's? It started with an 'R' and had an ugly logotype and signage. Some chain. (ps: I finally remembered. It was called 'Ashley') Anyway, it lasted for about a minute, and probably told Haverty's what they needed to know about the market for cheap dinette sets and puffycouches. Frankly, they're outclassed by Miskelly's, in competing for the portion of the market who don't buy from designers and antiques dealers. Miskelly's main store offers a truly glamorous shopping experience: especially once price point is taken into account.

And really, WalMart siphons off the poorer portion of the furniture market, now.

I read the original post a long time back, and am still wondering why you think that Mayor Mary has "egg on her face" regarding Jackson State. If it happened against her will, and was forced upon the city by powers which superseded hers, then how could she be blamed? It's about the same as blaming a rape victim for not honoring her marriage vows. Anyway, JSU is hardly going to compete with Tulane for students. So, as far as I'm concerned, Tulane will STILL have no competition in the area. Entirely different market segments.

What does seem outrageous to me about the JSU thing, though, is that the branch campus is a huge slap in the face to the University's traditional demographic. It's very obvious to me, and surely obvious to JSU alums, that JSU is joining the stampede out of Jackson, along with the car dealerships, the hospitals, the clinics... It seems to scream: "Black people aren't good enough for us, anymore."

I mean, even University Medical Center has joined the fray in trying to snatch-up the white money in Madison County. Used to be just Baptist and St. Dominic, battling it out for dominance, occasionally tag-teaming to keep the Methodists out of the market. Now, University is tired of poor, black people, and trying to insinuate itself into the remaining pockets of whiteness in Rankin and Madison counties.

So, the big box store Vampires are headed out of Jacktown. And the education Vampires are looking for richer, whiter, necks to bite. And the medical Ghouls are headed to Madison and Flowood, in search of estates to drain dry, by managing to drag out the slow and expensive deaths of the few white people remaining in the Metro. So is this really a loss to Jackson? The Vampires and Ghouls are leaving, and Jackson's complaining?

And does Jackson really need the silly projects that are 'stalled'? From my disinterested telescopic viewpoint, those projects seem a blur of ugly, depressing, modern buildings: the sort of things that make a nice 'artist's conceptual rendering', but, if ever built, are just bleak and cheap-looking. Back when we were all in undergrad, my Decorator brought a book back from a summer in New York, called Form Follows Fiasco. It was all about the ravages to society caused by "modern" buildings. The huge, expensive modernist disasters in that book looked exactly like the things being proposed for Jackson. I assume most architects and city planners have had access to that book. Why did they not learn from it?

What Jackson needs is not a bunch of grandiose "projects". It needs little things, like scores of gated communities for people of moderate means (around LA, some older neighborhoods have been retroactively gated). It needs bigger turning radii at intersections than those antiquated relics from horse & buggy days. It needs street repairs. It needs an auditorium redecorated to be worthy of the International Ballet Competition (think 'Russian Palace', not 'Modernist Prison'). USA International Ballet Competition | IBC And above all, Jackson needs trees, trees, and more trees.

Bleak and Desolate becomes Green and Lovely, if you plant enough trees. With trees, 'Vacant Lot' becomes 'Greenspace'. A hole in the city, with trees, becomes a verdant bosque. Learning to plant and nurture greenery would be the greatest gift Jacksonians could give themselves.

Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 04-09-2013 at 02:01 PM..
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,528 posts, read 9,676,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
When I lived there, my impression was that Madison wanted Saks, Neiman's, and Tiffany, not a bunch of big box cheap stores. But Mississippi hardly has enough affluent people to support those upmarket chains. Would have been nice. Tiffany's is a bit downmarket for me, but having a Saks Fifth Avenue and a Neiman Marcus in Madison would possibly have kept us in Mississippi. Their absence here in Portland makes me feel, sometimes, that we're in just another backwater. I have to say, though, that going to San Francisco from Lake O is a much more pleasant shopping jaunt than was schlepping down to New Orleans from Madison.

However, the big box cheap stores are what people in Mississippi can afford: so that's what Madison ended up with. Those stores announced their intent to move to Madison, without being 'cannibalized' by Madison. I don't think you understand how desperate retailers are to get away from incompetent/corrupt police and city officials, incompetent/corrupt employees, and trouble-making/theft-prone customers. Jackson is hardly unique in that regard.

There is a reason why Detroit is a "food desert" (bereft of grocery chains). It's not because Detroiters
Have you been to The Renaissance in Colony Park in Ridgeland? They have a plethora of upscale stores there, most of which you won't find anywhere else in Mississippi. The Jackson metro area isn't large enough to suppor a Tiffany's or Saks Fifth Avenue. The people of Madison and Ridgeland are wealthy enough, there just aren't enough of them.

Madison's retail selection really didn't impress me. From what I can see they don't have much in their town that most other decent suburban towns have. Although Madison is beautiful, and the buildings and store fronts there have the extra decorative features added to them, letting people know you're in a city with money.

Ridgeland's Renaissance shopping plaza is what has impressed me. The Fresh Market, The Apple Store, Ann Taylor, Banana Republic, Coldwater Creek, Lucky Brand Jeans, Brooks Brothers, Ethan Allen, and many many more! Most of the stores there have items so expensive I can't afford to shop there. I found a pair of jeans priced at $200!

Flowood has almost everything Madison does, just in a more typical suburban town fashion, and it's better laid out too! For the Jackson Metro area I am pretty pleased with the zoning and retail offered by Ridgeland and Flowood.

Also I wholeheartedly agree...JACKSON NEEDS STREET REPAIR! Driving in downtown Jackson is a nightmare! I'm pretty sure my car is out of alignment now with how rough their roads are! They're third world! How can the state capital, in the downtown area, have such poor poor roads? It's unthinkable and such a disgrace. This along with so many other reasons is why Jackson has a bad rep. That city has a lot of work to do if it ever intends to rise again. Until then you can count on the suburbs thriving and siphoning away all the good business.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,528 posts, read 9,676,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post

And then the mayor of Oklahoma City, which experienced hitting rock bottom after the terrorist bombing, but has been able to recover, gave a speech here. His main tenet - The entire area needs to work TOGETHER. "You can't be a suburb of NOTHING."
I agree with what that mayor said. Jackson is becoming a mini-Detroit. You have to have a large city that functions and works for the entire area to thrive. If Jackson started doing better, Madison and Ridgeland would benefit even more so. If that city continues a downward spiral, the suburbs will feel it eventually.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:28 AM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,123 posts, read 3,403,293 times
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Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
I agree with what that mayor said. Jackson is becoming a mini-Detroit. You have to have a large city that functions and works for the entire area to thrive. If Jackson started doing better, Madison and Ridgeland would benefit even more so. If that city continues a downward spiral, the suburbs will feel it eventually.
But you can't get that through the thick skulls of the leadership in the surrounding towns. They hate Jackson so much that they would rather have Jackson fail and pull down the entire region, rather than see Jackson succeed, which would benefit the entire area.

For example, Madison could have easily said "We're not going to spend any time or resources in cannibalizing Sam's Club from Jackson. Instead we're going to coax Costco into Madison." That would have benefited Madison AND the region, by bringing in a new brand. Instead Sam's move a couple of miles, there is no benefit to the region. That's what you get when you have leadership that doesn't lead, or leadership that bases their policies on 1950's style politics.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,123 posts, read 3,403,293 times
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Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
I don't think you understand how desperate retailers are to get away from incompetent/corrupt police and city officials, incompetent/corrupt employees, and trouble-making/theft-prone customers. Jackson is hardly unique in that regard.
Please explain how incompetent/corrupt police and incompetent/corrupt city officials affected Sams Club's decision to move to Madison?
Please explain how a move of approx 3 miles, while remaining in the Jackson area, will substantially change the employees Sams Club will have (since you claim they are moving due to "incompetent/corrupt" employees)?
Please explain how a move of approx 3 miles, while remaining in the Jackson area, will substantially change the customer base Sams Club will have (since you claim they are moving due to "trouble-making/theft-prone" customers)?

My conjecture is that there are nowhere near enough Madison residents to staff Sams Club and to shop at Sams Club. Sams moving is not a referendum on their employees or their client base, because neither will change significantly by moving those 3 miles. Any people from Jackson who decide not to make the trek to Madison will be simply replaced by similar folks from Canton, who will now see Sams as a closer employment and shopping option.

I am interested to hear your theories about police and politicians and how they impacted Sams' move.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,528 posts, read 9,676,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
Please explain how incompetent/corrupt police and incompetent/corrupt city officials affected Sams Club's decision to move to Madison?
Please explain how a move of approx 3 miles, while remaining in the Jackson area, will substantially change the employees Sams Club will have (since you claim they are moving due to "incompetent/corrupt" employees)?
Please explain how a move of approx 3 miles, while remaining in the Jackson area, will substantially change the customer base Sams Club will have (since you claim they are moving due to "trouble-making/theft-prone" customers)?

My conjecture is that there are nowhere near enough Madison residents to staff Sams Club and to shop at Sams Club. Sams moving is not a referendum on their employees or their client base, because neither will change significantly by moving those 3 miles. Any people from Jackson who decide not to make the trek to Madison will be simply replaced by similar folks from Canton, who will now see Sams as a closer employment and shopping option.

I am interested to hear your theories about police and politicians and how they impacted Sams' move.
A city of 25,000 can't support a Sam's Club on its own? Plus you have Ridgeland right next door, another 25,000 right there. Meridian has a Sam's Club! Although it won't be leaving Meridian any time soon, since there are no suburbs to flee to.

I don't believe it was directly the city's fault for Sam's Club leaving Jackson, it was more indirect in the way that Jackson's property values are far lower and their crime rate is far higher. The move to Madison was influenced by the same reason that most other big box retailers are moving to the suburbs. For one, it's where the people with money and affluence are moving to, secondly the crime rates are lower, thirdly the area they were in was already seeing reduced customer traffic.

I have not explored Jackson that thoroughly, but it appears in the line of chain retail stores that Jackson only has one area that is actually doing okay and able to bring in any kind of outside retailers. I don't know the name of the area exactly, but it's right next to the Hilton off of the interstate. The rest of Jackson is pretty rundown, suffering from urban decay, and just plain dead. Even downtown Jackson is showing signs, the offices and corporations there seem to be doing okay, but the city roads are a complete joke, there isn't much in the way of city dining or shopping either.

Jackson has so many internal problems
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:23 PM
 
Location: PNW, Aspen, NY: CPS & Meadow Lane
3,280 posts, read 4,460,813 times
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Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
A city of 25,000 can't support a Sam's Club on its own? Plus you have Ridgeland right next door, another 25,000 right there. Meridian has a Sam's Club! Although it won't be leaving Meridian any time soon, since there are no suburbs to flee to.

I don't believe it was directly the city's fault for Sam's Club leaving Jackson, it was more indirect in the way that Jackson's property values are far lower and their crime rate is far higher. The move to Madison was influenced by the same reason that most other big box retailers are moving to the suburbs. For one, it's where the people with money and affluence are moving to, secondly the crime rates are lower, thirdly the area they were in was already seeing reduced customer traffic.

I have not explored Jackson that thoroughly, but it appears in the line of chain retail stores that Jackson only has one area that is actually doing okay and able to bring in any kind of outside retailers. I don't know the name of the area exactly, but it's right next to the Hilton off of the interstate. The rest of Jackson is pretty rundown, suffering from urban decay, and just plain dead. Even downtown Jackson is showing signs, the offices and corporations there seem to be doing okay, but the city roads are a complete joke, there isn't much in the way of city dining or shopping either.

Jackson has so many internal problems
The area you reference is 'County Line Road'. The Hilton side is Jackson. The other side is Ridgeland. One side is in Hinds County, while the other is in Madison County. The initial impetus for retailers to move just across the line had to do with exorbitant Jackson school taxes, and antiquated 'Blue Laws', which forbade stores' being open on Sundays.

There are already signs of flight by retailers from the Jackson side. Not sure of the specific reasons, but two stories I can tell you may hint at the problems the stores and their employees (and customers) have faced on that Jacktown side.

Before we moved up here, there was a handicapped man in a motorized wheelchair, who had called for the Jackson handicapped bus from a stop on the Jackson side of County Line Road. He waited all afternoon, stranded on the side of the busy street, calling repeatedly. Finally, early that evening, police from Ridgeland saw the stranded man on television, and rescued him, using one of their own personal vehicles. Camera crews had managed to get to him, but not Jackson Transit or any other Jackson entity which should have been responding to a handicapped person in distress.

A friend of ours knew a young architect working for a famous firm, who had recently married. His wife got stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic on County Line Road. In her rearview mirror, she noticed a pair of 'Underserved Youths' working their way up the line of idling cars, trying the doors, trying to get into people's cars. She called Jackson Police (probably, her 911 was directed to them), who told her she needed to call Ridgeland Police (remember, the road straddles the counties. Maybe she was on the wrong side of the median, or something). So, she (seeing them getting closer to her own car, and getting panicky) said. "Can you call them?" Answer: "NAW". So, she had to call information, etc. To get Ridgeland PD. They were there within a couple of minutes: quickly enough for her to see them handcuffing the 'Youths'.

Well, that young woman got home and announced to her new husband that they were moving. Or, she was moving... They found jobs in another metropolis in another state. It wasn't the actions of the 'Youths' that upset her so much. It was the attitude of Jackson Police. The husband's famous employer, BTW, moved his firm to another state, specifically because that employer's key hires hated Jackson so much (and kept moving away).

When we lived and/or worked in Jackson, we had occasion to call JPD on a number of occasions. I quickly developed the mindset that the police were not going to help, and were probably going to be rude and dismissive. What a revelation it was to get to Madison and discover that the police were actually going to take your call seriously, were probably going to resolve your problem, and were always going to be polite and respectful. It was actually quite shocking (but in a good way). When we made all of those futile calls in Jackson, we were acting either as employers, or as owners of apartment buildings. And I imagine that the experiences we had with JPD were quite similar to the experiences of people in the mercantile sector.

From what I'm hearing, many of the merchants on County Line would love to be in Madison. And far from being 'wooed' by Madison, they have to pay a premium to be there. In other words, they have to build far nicer stores than they did in Jackson. And they have to put in nicer landscaping. Still, they are lined up like planes on the tarmac, waiting to fly and flee to Madison.

Oh, BTW, I'm glad you liked 'Renaissance'. You helped pay for it. If I'm remembering correctly, thirty five million Dollars of Go-Zone money (intended to help redevelop areas ravaged by Hurricane Katrina) were added to the mix in capitalizing that project. Renaissance's being built in Ridgeland kept all those high-end stores from going to Madison. However, I'm told that Madison's tax income from WalMart alone exceeds the total tax revenues to Ridgeland for all the businesses in Renaissance, combined. Madison may want the expensive she-she-la-la boutiques and specialty stores being grabbed (so far) by Ridgeland. But as an economist, I'm thinking Madison is doing far better with the big box stores which have clamored for entry into the city.

Little birds have whispered into my ears that Renaissance is not doing so hotsy totsy. Nobody can afford the merch. The Depression hit right as Renaissance was going online, and spending in the near-luxury bracket plummeted. And the merch there is not exclusive enough for the industrialists, plaintiff attorneys, and neurosurgeons who still have money to burn.

The brilliance of Madison is that the stores have merchandise anyone can afford, being sold from buildings that are nicer than what you see on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills (and I know this from experience), and as nice as the ones on Worth Avenue in Palm Beach. So, any old zhlub who can afford to shop at a discount drugstore can saunter past real verde marble, beneath Corinthian and Ionic columns, and go get that prescription filled. To put it differently, the red carpet ambiance reserved for the rich in other places is available, in Madison, to everyone. Democracy at its best! I wonder if people there realize how good they've got it.

Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 04-10-2013 at 06:34 PM..
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,528 posts, read 9,676,459 times
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When I visited Renaissance in Ridgeland the parkings lots were pretty packed. I can't say it's doing well as I have not seen the sales they are bringing in, but there is no shortage of people there, I can say that much.

What you say about Madison is true, people like to go to your common retail chain store to shop in Madison more than anywhere else, because of the fancy columns, the beautiful facades that every store adorns, the art deco lamps, etc. I come all the way from Meridian to go shopping in Flowood, Ridgeland, and Madison...because Meridian doesn't have much in the way of shopping, but the Jackson suburbs do.

I had no idea Jackson police were so lazy, and they actually fight with you based on what side of the county line you're on.

So is the Krispy Kreme in Jackson or in Ridgeland? Is the TJMaxx and the strip mall there in Jackson or Ridgeland? If all those stores are in Ridgeland then I wonder if Jackson has any kind of retail chain stores....
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