As a Mississpian, which do you consider yourself first, American, Southerner, or Mississippian? (European)

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by southsidegal6743

I'm an American the same way a Tibetan is Chinese, my country is under occupation and has been annexed thus my taxes are paid to America and their flag flies over my country. Southerner first. I wasn't born in the South but I am of southern heritage paternally and currently live in what was CSA territory.




At day's end, this is the flag I pledge allegiance too and that flies in front of every home I live in.


And these are my founding fathers

I understand you can't help what you feel deep in your heart. Do you not love the United States of America?

If you had something like that in another country, you might have found yourself in a world of trouble.

[An Einnseanair]

Originally Posted by southsidegal6743

At day's end, this is the flag I pledge allegiance too and that flies in front of every home I live in.

It never ceases to amaze me at the number of people who all but worship a flag they know nothing about. The image you posted is of the Confederate Battle Flag, used by some of the CSA troops because the various CSA flags were inappropriate on the battle field (the first because it was too similar to the USA flag, the second because there was too much white, and the third was adopted just before the surrender so it never saw use). Not only was the full Southern Cross design never adopted as an official flag by the CSA government, it was specifically rejected as the first national flag in favor of the Stars and Bars (similar to USA flag, but with 3 wide red/white bars instead of 13 red/white stripes). If you truly want to "pledge allegiance" to a piece of colored cloth then at least pick the right colors:

Stars and Bars


Stainless Banner


Blood-Stained Banner

[southsidegal6743]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

I understand you can't help what you feel deep in your heart. Do you not love the United States of America?

If you had something like that in another country, you might have found yourself in a world of trouble.

I feel towards the U.S. in a similar way that a Palestinian feels toward Israel.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by southsidegal6743

I feel towards the U.S. in a similar way that a Palestinian feels toward Israel.

Wow. That don't sound too good at all. I never heard anybody talk like that, and I've lived in Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Missouri and Texas.

How did you feel on 911 when the terrorists took down those buildings and killed all those people in New York City. Did you feel a sense of vindication? I mean if you hate the United States that much, why wouldn't you feel vindicated?

It must be extremely frustrating to live in a country you hate so much and be so powerless to do anything about it short of leaving the country altogether.

I feel sorry for you. I hope you can find some peace.

[An Einnseanair]

Originally Posted by southsidegal6743

I feel towards the U.S. in a similar way that a Palestinian feels toward Israel.

You said you weren't born here, but your paternal ancestors were.

I'm curious... are you a descendant of the "top 1%" from back then, i.e., the rich plantation owners? If so, then maybe you have a legitimate reason to lament the loss of the war.

If so, you are a very rare creature, because the overwhelming vast majority of the south was basically poor white trash back then. There was no middle class, and no manufacturing infrastructure to support a middle class. If the south had won, the majority of people would continue to be hard-scrabble sharecroppers, or hired hands, working for the elite rich landowners and timber barons. Maybe a few bottom-rung middle-class jobs in agricultural processing facilities (mills, cotton gins, etc.) for the townies.

Or are you along the lines of modern renaissance fair participants, who fantasize about a better time in history? You know, where every below-average female would have been a beautiful princess and every overweight geeky male would have been a valiant knight in armor. That's what I see during Civil War reenactments... all the by-standers are dressed as if they were members of the ruling aristocracy. Absolutely no one is ever dressed in the cotton-sack rags worn by the vast majority of normal people back then. Is that you? Do you fantasize over the ideal that, if only you were born in the proper time and the evil Federation hadn't illegally invaded during the War of Northern Aggression, you would have naturally ascended to your proper place in the ruling class?


If you really want to know what would have happened had the south won (or the north never retaliated for the attack on the federally-owned Ft. Sumter), simply look at Latin America. Same situation back then; purely agricultural society ruled by wealthy landowners who used cheap slave labor to dominate the poor working class. So how are countries like Mexico, Nicaragua, and Venezuela doing these days? Would you rather live there?

What about WWI and WWII a few decades after the civil war, or the Cold War afterwards. If a united USA hadn't intervened, what would the world look like now? Would the CSA be speaking Turkish? German? Japanese? Russian?

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by jwkilgore

It never ceases to amaze me at the number of people who all but worship a flag they know nothing about. The image you posted is of the Confederate Battle Flag, used by some of the CSA troops because the various CSA flags were inappropriate on the battle field (the first because it was too similar to the USA flag, the second because there was too much white, and the third was adopted just before the surrender so it never saw use). Not only was the full Southern Cross design never adopted as an official flag by the CSA government, it was specifically rejected as the first national flag in favor of the Stars and Bars (similar to USA flag, but with 3 wide red/white bars instead of 13 red/white stripes). If you truly want to "pledge allegiance" to a piece of colored cloth then at least pick the right colors:

Stars and Bars


Stainless Banner


Blood-Stained Banner

I like the CSA's Battle Flags best, take a look at the otherwise simple but poignant flag General William J. Hardee's Corps used. I have one myself.

[ColdAilment]

I'm surprised "son of the confederacy" wasn't an option. Anyone who considers themselves anything BUT American first needs to remember what country they live in.

[Moboy32]

I dont understand why people support the old, defeated confederacy. If the Civil War was never mentioned in history lessons, they wouldn't be able to find a legitimate reason to hate the US. Without that knowledge of history, they wouldn't hate the US or fly the rebel flag. The souths problems in the 1860s are irrelevant today. They face new challenges today that are much more important than some 150 year old history lesson. The CSA is just that, history. It existed for 4 years and completely lost the only war it ever fought.

[danielj72]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

A question for the people who consider their selves Southerners before they consider their selves as an American, do y'all wish, or secretly wish the South had won the Civil War? Sounds like to me you're putting your region above your country. Do you feel more aligned with the Confederacy than you do with the United States?

I'm not trying to argue or start something. I'm just curious why you would put your region above your country .

I have never met anybody in the West, the Midwest or the Northeast, who consider their selves to be Westerners, Midwesterners or Northeasterners before they are Americans.

I never heard anybody in Indiana to consider their selves as Hoosier before they are Americans, and Hoosiers are extremely proud to call theirselves Hoosiers, but they consider their selves Americans first and foremost.

Having an allegiance to your state of residence is a very American thing to do. That is how the republic was founded and the idea of state sovereignty was enshrined in our Bill of Rights as the 10th amendment. It was that lousy War of Northern Aggression that destroyed the way of governance intended by the founding fathers. Of course that war was caused by northern desires to ignore the constitution and bully the south. Do I wish the south had won??? well if it had we would not be living with the corrupt bloated federal government we have today, and we would not be having our phone lines tapped or internet monitored. Federal courts would not be deciding our states laws and so on. So in short yes I think a southern victory would have been a good thing considering how todays nation is. Oh and we are all Americans whether we live in the north, south or even Canada. This entire continent is America, or North America if you will. However if we had won the war we would be Confederate Americans. This has nothing to do with pride in being American, it has to do with values and politics. I wish we had the union we are supposed to have, one where each state could make its own laws and not be pushed around by the northern government in Washington. However the Confederate founding fathers figured out that the northern states would always use their larger populations to dictate how things were to be for the rest of the states, and forever increase the power of the federal government to forward their agenda. Has this not been the story since the Northern victory 150 years ago? Its still going on today, all the social change and socialist programs like Obama care have been forced upon us by the so called more enlightened people in just a few northern states with very large populations. Look at the Red vs Blue state map and its very similar to the old lines of division going back to the war. (the mountain west has been added to our side) Nothing has changed, they STILL are telling us how to live. We are not a nation of equals, our rulers live in the Northeast, the rest of the nation including the south just does what we are told. This is why the issue of the confederacy, secession is still brought up today. The issue is rising again, and talk of secession is also rising with the increased division of the last 10 years or so. This may be a history lesson that we get to repeat one day.

[Yokandyman]

Some of these comments are quite disturbing to read, regarding an allegiance to The Confederacy (which doesn't even exist) and claiming state sovereignty over our country's. Having been born and raised in Mississippi, I guess I shouldn't be surprised with this type of mentality. Little wonder why things are still subpar there. Glad I left.