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Old 10-17-2014, 02:49 AM
 
Location: California
738 posts, read 518,323 times
Reputation: 1115

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Climber View Post
The mindset that holds Mississippi apart, in my view, is the prevalent focus on "class". It struck me as strange, the need for people to "place" you and find out whether you were an acceptable person to their liking before taking a chance to get to know you. That mindset is unique to a few deep south areas, and I believe it is probably rooted in the historical Aristocratic format of plantation owner/slave/sharecropper. Without bringing even race into the discussion, I encountered this consistently in the brief time I spent in Mississippi.
This is very, very true in South Carolina where I used to live as well. I currently live in Raleigh, NC and this obsession with class is no more prevalent than in NJ. I don't consider NC to be the deep south however.

The hilarious thing like you said is how focused on class everyone is in the deep south. I'll give one archetypical example that seems to be the case amongst many of these deep south people. I once dated a girl who lived in rural SC. I'd give the family the benefit of the doubt and say they were middle class for the area but by no means rich (college loans, mortgage on a 150k house etc, noone in the family made more than 40k individually). Anyway, they made me attend a ridiculous debutante ball for her daughter (to show how worthy she was of rich, high society), and always associated with a limited group of people that seemed to spend well beyond their means to endeavor to look cool. Obsession with "being better" than all the "white trash/poo' black folk" came up at the dinner table at least once every 5 minutes. It was weird. And this attitude was very pervasive. Maybe because the bar is so low in the (rural) deep south, any idiot with a bachelors degree and a 30k a year job with health insurance is considered high society. And boy does everyone look down harshly on those beneath them on the socioeconomic ladder.

I like warm weather and now live in the South but I was raised in the North. I've had friends who were temporarily homeless they were so poor, and I've had friends whose families were millionaires, and knew people than made 100k a year in their 20s. I befriend people I find funny, and that are willing to do a lot of fun outdoor and other adventurous activities. I rarely care about "class" whatever that means. In my social circle, most people aren't concerned with being "classy" or whatnot. The irony is a lot of the rural deep southerners who tried so hard to be "classy" would binge drink by their school age children, show palpable racism everywhere. And church was almost mandatory.

I will say though this only applies to the rural regions of the Deep South really. Large cities are much better. And NC is much better.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Bowie but New Orleans born and bred
701 posts, read 822,630 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
It isn't true more poor white people vote Republican. The whole strategy of Democratic party is to get the poor vote.

I just looked at how the various counties in MS voted in 2012. ROmney won the the top 6 most affluent counties in MS by a large margin, some around 40-50 percentage points, including Madison county which is only MS county more affluent than average county in US. He just barely lost the 7th most affluent. My basis for affluence is the per capita income data on Wikipedia.

This jives with how it goes in SC, the affluent counties in SC almost always vote Republican. Romney won the affluent counties in SC including Greenville, Lexington (Columbia), Dorchester (part of Charleston), Beuufort (Hilton Head), Horry (Mrytle Beach), by big margins.

Obama no doubt did win some affluent counties. But across the board more affluent counties vote Republican, that your party calls the party of the rich;. Obaam won nearly every very poor rural county in state of SC.

It is always curious to me that Democrats try to label Republicans with lack of education and low income given so many of their voters are low income and low educational attainment. In general, union workers tend to be lower income and less educated and obviously union workers tend to vote Democrat. Those are generally white people, not minorities. Why have such disdain for people with low educational attainment and low income? That isn't being cool, plus a large percentage of the Democrat voting base.

Yes, I do think Michelle Obama is overweight. I don't see why anybody should be lectured by her regarding nutrition and exercise. That's fine if she wants to try to eat healthy but nobody elected her to be our momma and dictate what kind of food schools serve the kids. I also don't see a lot of obese kids out there, most kids are really skinny b/c their metoblism hasn't slowed up yet. Michelle is out making childhood obesity out as some kind of epidemic and it isn't. My opinion is her obsession with that has caused lot of embarrassment for overweight kids at schools too.
I was going to pass over your posts but couldn't because you really aren't doing MS or SC any service with your backwards thinking.

I find it very hard to believe that you're any type of engineer. Did you have to take a Stats class in college? This logic that just because you don't see something means that it doesn't exist or is small in number is just absurd and you just come off as irrational as a whole. By your logic, the fact that I don't see a lot of snakes, raccoons, hawks, etc... out here means that there aren't a lot of them ELSEWHERE in this state or country. Do you see a lot of camels in your area? Does that mean that there aren't a lot of camels in other places, like Africa and Asia? I don't run into a lot of obese people up here but when I go home to NO and certain towns in MS to visit my fam I do.

You're obviously trying very hard to prove some type of political point which no one here really cares about. Obesity isn't some made up liberal agenda, it's been acknowledged by BOTH parties, though each has a different method of how to control it. Here is a link to a conservative that thinks the solution to obesity is Personal Responsibility:A Conservative Solution to the Obesity Epidemic « The Greenroom. And here's another link to a Pew Research poll where conservatives acknowledge obesity and respond to questions related to it: Public Agrees on Obesity. Just do a Google search to find more articles about conservatives acknowledging there is an obesity problem and their solutions.

Your mindset is the type of mindset that's holding states like MS and other southern states in the past...the type that shuns science, statistics & research, and LOGIC. Please stop being a pawn in this political system, regardless of the party, and regurgitating the same talking points you read and see in the media. Be open-minded about things, do your own research (not just relying on what YOU see in YOUR area), and don't be too proud to acknowledge when you're wrong because that's the only way you, the state of MS, the south, and this country overall will get better. Peace
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas via ATX
1,265 posts, read 1,523,011 times
Reputation: 1768
Quote:
Originally Posted by njbiodude View Post
The hilarious thing like you said is how focused on class everyone is in the deep south. I'll give one archetypical example that seems to be the case amongst many of these deep south people. I once dated a girl who lived in rural SC. I'd give the family the benefit of the doubt and say they were middle class for the area but by no means rich (college loans, mortgage on a 150k house etc, noone in the family made more than 40k individually). Anyway, they made me attend a ridiculous debutante ball for her daughter (to show how worthy she was of rich, high society), and always associated with a limited group of people that seemed to spend well beyond their means to endeavor to look cool. Obsession with "being better" than all the "white trash/poo' black folk" came up at the dinner table at least once every 5 minutes. It was weird. And this attitude was very pervasive. Maybe because the bar is so low in the (rural) deep south, any idiot with a bachelors degree and a 30k a year job with health insurance is considered high society. And boy does everyone look down harshly on those beneath them on the socioeconomic ladder.
You nailed it. Yes, this is my feeling about my experiences in Mississippi. I now live in northwestern Arkansas. Eastern Arkansas (the "delta" areas, with that "plantation" history and mindset) shares that same type of deep south classist mindset, but it isn't the same up here. Class consciousness is rare. Here, it feels like the rest of America. There are rich people, poor people, middle class people, but there isn't that same desire to "prove" one's worth as a person. I've sat in a total dive bar here locally and had conversations with people who turned out to be higher-ups in local Fortune 500 companies, and once I found out the guy who bought us drinks was a nationally renowned chef. (The barkeep told me after he left)

Perhaps there is an analogue in the "$30k millionaire" phenomenon that Dallas is known for. I don't know. Western Texans are more known for being "new money trash" with garish tastes, etc.

I'm glad its not just me that felt it. It just seemed like a lot of effort and to an outsider, it seemed very strange and unwarranted. Absurd. Its a shame-based mindset, IMO.
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Old 10-17-2014, 12:14 PM
 
123 posts, read 128,982 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDatInMD View Post
I was going to pass over your posts but couldn't because you really aren't doing MS or SC any service with your backwards thinking.

I find it very hard to believe that you're any type of engineer. Did you have to take a Stats class in college? This logic that just because you don't see something means that it doesn't exist or is small in number is just absurd and you just come off as irrational as a whole. By your logic, the fact that I don't see a lot of snakes, raccoons, hawks, etc... out here means that there aren't a lot of them ELSEWHERE in this state or country. Do you see a lot of camels in your area? Does that mean that there aren't a lot of camels in other places, like Africa and Asia? I don't run into a lot of obese people up here but when I go home to NO and certain towns in MS to visit my fam I do.

You're obviously trying very hard to prove some type of political point which no one here really cares about. Obesity isn't some made up liberal agenda, it's been acknowledged by BOTH parties, though each has a different method of how to control it. Here is a link to a conservative that thinks the solution to obesity is Personal Responsibility:A Conservative Solution to the Obesity Epidemic « The Greenroom. And here's another link to a Pew Research poll where conservatives acknowledge obesity and respond to questions related to it: Public Agrees on Obesity. Just do a Google search to find more articles about conservatives acknowledging there is an obesity problem and their solutions.

Your mindset is the type of mindset that's holding states like MS and other southern states in the past...the type that shuns science, statistics & research, and LOGIC. Please stop being a pawn in this political system, regardless of the party, and regurgitating the same talking points you read and see in the media. Be open-minded about things, do your own research (not just relying on what YOU see in YOUR area), and don't be too proud to acknowledge when you're wrong because that's the only way you, the state of MS, the south, and this country overall will get better. Peace
Physicians should be talking about obesity to the peoplw who are obese, in private. Not politicians, and you aren't a physiciann and nobody cares what you think about obesity. You have no credibility in lecturing people about it and telling me what an epidemic is or isn't. I live in this country and I rarely see somebody that I would call obese and majority of kids I see are not obese. Weight is rarely a problem with kids given their fast metobolism. I'm sure you can cherrypick some conservative groups out there that talked about obesity. That doesn't mean most conservatives think obesity is the driving factor behind healthcare costs. Most health conditions are not tied to obesity. Cancer has nothing to do with obesity and a leading cause of death and expensive to treat with chemo and therapy. I have done my own research, otherwise I would have believe Democrats like you who argue most affluent people vote Democrat. I've proved that isnt true in MS and SC. I love it when non-engineers lecture me about what I am supposed to know and not know. How can you know what I'm supposed to know as an engineer if you are not an engineer? You need to save your pretentious lectures. I'm not your captive audience. I wanted your advice, I will ask you for it. I don't see how a Democrat can lecture people about making the country better , given the last 6 years under Democrat control. Time for some humility, probably.

If you claim obesity is an epidemic, that means that I should see tons of obese people everywhere I go. If I don't, then it is obivously not an epidemic. Epidemic means a lot of people have it and obviously obesity isn't something obese people can conceal.

But as I pointed out in my original post, I don't think Democrats talking about obesity in south is even coming from a good place. They don't like conservatives so they want to associate something negative like obesity, or low educational attainment, or low income, with them. It is a school yard taunt thing for them, even though there is no hard evdience people are in the south are more obese than other states, or that most of the obese people are conservative voters.

So far not one person has explained how the government knows what percentage of people in a state are obese? Do our physicians fax in our weight info to the government for these stats? Isn't that violation of HIPA laws?

Last edited by Back In Orange; 10-17-2014 at 12:28 PM..
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Old 10-17-2014, 01:34 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
14,558 posts, read 9,061,568 times
Reputation: 21146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
Physicians should be talking about obesity to the peoplw who are obese, in private. Not politicians, and you aren't a physiciann and nobody cares what you think about obesity. You have no credibility in lecturing people about it and telling me what an epidemic is or isn't. I live in this country and I rarely see somebody that I would call obese and majority of kids I see are not obese. Weight is rarely a problem with kids given their fast metobolism. I'm sure you can cherrypick some conservative groups out there that talked about obesity. That doesn't mean most conservatives think obesity is the driving factor behind healthcare costs. Most health conditions are not tied to obesity. Cancer has nothing to do with obesity and a leading cause of death and expensive to treat with chemo and therapy. I have done my own research, otherwise I would have believe Democrats like you who argue most affluent people vote Democrat. I've proved that isnt true in MS and SC. I love it when non-engineers lecture me about what I am supposed to know and not know. How can you know what I'm supposed to know as an engineer if you are not an engineer? You need to save your pretentious lectures. I'm not your captive audience. I wanted your advice, I will ask you for it. I don't see how a Democrat can lecture people about making the country better , given the last 6 years under Democrat control. Time for some humility, probably.

If you claim obesity is an epidemic, that means that I should see tons of obese people everywhere I go. If I don't, then it is obivously not an epidemic. Epidemic means a lot of people have it and obviously obesity isn't something obese people can conceal.

But as I pointed out in my original post, I don't think Democrats talking about obesity in south is even coming from a good place. They don't like conservatives so they want to associate something negative like obesity, or low educational attainment, or low income, with them. It is a school yard taunt thing for them, even though there is no hard evdience people are in the south are more obese than other states, or that most of the obese people are conservative voters.

So far not one person has explained how the government knows what percentage of people in a state are obese? Do our physicians fax in our weight info to the government for these stats? Isn't that violation of HIPA laws?
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Old 10-17-2014, 02:22 PM
 
9,981 posts, read 6,164,847 times
Reputation: 6753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post

So far not one person has explained how the government knows what percentage of people in a state are obese? Do our physicians fax in our weight info to the government for these stats? Isn't that violation of HIPA laws?

Jesus NO! It's not a violation of HIPA as long as the patient's name is not associated with the information. Your doctor can fax "Male patient. Conservative. Engineer. Mildly retarded. " all over the world, as long as he doesn't put your name/pic/other information that can trace back to you, he is not violating HIPA.
.
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Old 10-17-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Bowie but New Orleans born and bred
701 posts, read 822,630 times
Reputation: 523
I see I touched a nerve .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
Physicians should be talking about obesity to the peoplw who are obese, in private. Not politicians, and you aren't a physiciann and nobody cares what you think about obesity. You have no credibility in lecturing people about it and telling me what an epidemic is or isn't.
I was simply pointing out that obesity is a real issue in this country and BOTH parties acknowledge that it is. And I provided links confirming that which you cannot refute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
I live in this country and I rarely see somebody that I would call obese and majority of kids I see are not obese. Weight is rarely a problem with kids given their fast metobolism.
Who is arguing that weight is a problem with kids? Most overweight/obese individuals are adults and the stats back it up.
And again, because you rarely see something does not mean that it doesn't exist or is small in number. I turn to my example of camels again...How often do you see camels? Rarely I would imagine and does that mean that they don't exist in greater numbers elsewhere? I live in this country also and I see many obese individuals, even in MS towns such as Coldwater, Olive Branch, Senatobia, Hernando, and Natchez but don't see as many in parts of Jackson. [/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
I'm sure you can cherrypick some conservative groups out there that talked about obesity. That doesn't mean most conservatives think obesity is the driving factor behind healthcare costs. Most health conditions are not tied to obesity. Cancer has nothing to do with obesity and a leading cause of death and expensive to treat with chemo and therapy.
Ok, I never mentioned anything about healthcare cost. I was simply pointing out that obesity is a real issue in this country and BOTH parties acknowledge that it is. And I provided links confirming that which you cannot refute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
I have done my own research, otherwise I would have believe Democrats like you who argue most affluent people vote Democrat. I've proved that isnt true in MS and SC.
I actually don't support either of these political parties, but it's funny that you think I'm a Democrat because I disagree with you, even though my previous message mentioned not being a pawn for either party. They're both at odds with each other and can't seem to agree on anything a majority of the time when it comes to America's well-being, yet they're quick to work together to enact measures to advance their own agendas or to make it harder for 3rd party groups to run against them.Thinking beyond the two party system | MyFDL You're coming off as a brainwashed political troll. I would think as an engineer you'd be more open-minded. [/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
I love it when non-engineers lecture me about what I am supposed to know and not know. How can you know what I'm supposed to know as an engineer if you are not an engineer? You need to save your pretentious lectures. I'm not your captive audience. I wanted your advice, I will ask you for it. I don't see how a Democrat can lecture people about making the country better , given the last 6 years under Democrat control. Time for some humility, probably.
I actually am an engineer. Graduated from LSU with a Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering and a minor in Math. I do mostly computer engineering tasks now but they're both intertwined . But it's funny that you think I'm not an engineer and am a Democrat because I disagreed with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
If you claim obesity is an epidemic, that means that I should see tons of obese people everywhere I go.
No, you shouldn't. Go to your average gym. You don't see many obese people there. Go to a marathon, you don't see many obese people there running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
If I don't, then it is obivously not an epidemic. Epidemic means a lot of people have it and obviously obesity isn't something obese people can conceal.
Again, no. You're really missing the point. The point is, just because you're in an area where you don't see much of a specific thing doesn't mean that it's not prevalent in other places. Have you been to every town in MS and WV, which are the two states with the highest rate of obesity, and determined that many of the people in those towns are not obese? No, you haven't. Just because you live and interact in a portion of the state doesn't mean that what you see relates to the state as a whole. MS, as a whole, has an obesity rate of 35%, so roughly every 3-4 individuals in the state are obese. If you live or spend most of your time in a part of the state that has a higher concentration of in-shape individuals, then this obesity figure will be lower and you won't see as many obese individuals.

I think the issue is that you think more people in the state are obese because it's being called an epidemic, and as a result you expect to see them all over the place. Yes, an epidemic means a lot of people have it but it also means it's widespread, which it is across the US. Based on CDC stats, as a whole, about 35% of US adults are obese and at least 17% of US childrean are, which totals to 52% or over half the country.
Obesity and Overweight for Professionals: Data and Statistics: Adult Obesity - DNPAO - CDC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
But as I pointed out in my original post, I don't think Democrats talking about obesity in south is even coming from a good place. They don't like conservatives so they want to associate something negative like obesity, or low educational attainment, or low income, with them. It is a school yard taunt thing for them, even though there is no hard evdience people are in the south are more obese than other states, or that most of the obese people are conservative voters.
And Republicans don't like Democrats and do many things also to harm their image. It's politics and at the end of the day, both only care about lining their own pockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Orange View Post
So far not one person has explained how the government knows what percentage of people in a state are obese? Do our physicians fax in our weight info to the government for these stats? Isn't that violation of HIPA laws?
No, physicians are not faxing your info to the govt. The govt gets it from physical examinations, telephone and in-home interviews to name a few methods. See detailed descriptions and more here:
Obesity and Overweight for Professionals: Data and Statistics: Surveillance - DNPAO - CDC
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:06 PM
 
123 posts, read 128,982 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
Jesus NO! It's not a violation of HIPA as long as the patient's name is not associated with the information. Your doctor can fax "Male patient. Conservative. Engineer. Mildly retarded. " all over the world, as long as he doesn't put your name/pic/other information that can trace back to you, he is not violating HIPA.
.
Pretty sure most patients not going to go for that. I can't see my physicians doing that. I will ask them if they are sending personal info to the government. Those weight stats are bogus. No way 1 out of 3 people in MS or any state is obese. You are making fun of retarded people now? Such empathy and class.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:11 PM
 
123 posts, read 128,982 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoDatInMD View Post
I see I touched a nerve .



I was simply pointing out that obesity is a real issue in this country and BOTH parties acknowledge that it is. And I provided links confirming that which you cannot refute.



Who is arguing that weight is a problem with kids? Most overweight/obese individuals are adults and the stats back it up.
And again, because you rarely see something does not mean that it doesn't exist or is small in number. I turn to my example of camels again...How often do you see camels? Rarely I would imagine and does that mean that they don't exist in greater numbers elsewhere? I live in this country also and I see many obese individuals, even in MS towns such as Coldwater, Olive Branch, Senatobia, Hernando, and Natchez but don't see as many in parts of Jackson.
Holy wall of text. ]

Oh, the government say so. Our wondrous government cannot be wrong. I don't believe our governmnet has weight info on every citizen and I see no reason why they need to be talking about obesity stats. They aren't physicians and nobody pays them for medical advice.

Obesity is a problem for the obese. I don't think it is a major problem in society. 1 out of 3 people in AMerica are not obese. Obviously a bogus stat if you actually observe things on your own. Many people tend to struggle with their weight as they get older, like Michelle Obama, but that doesn't mean they are obese. ]

Michelle Obama is the one saying obesity is an epidemic amongst kids. School lunches have been revised to be based on what she thinks the kids should be eating, even though nobody elected her. ]

You do what a lot of Democrats do, you find one or two Republicans/conservatives that agree with you, and then argue that most conservatives agree with you on this or that. That's how we get to the ACA being a Republican idea despite fact no Republican president or Congress had ever proposed that idea prior to Obama.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:37 PM
 
Location: 78745
3,129 posts, read 2,302,526 times
Reputation: 5441
Quote:
Originally Posted by deb100 View Post
I would bet money that Michelle Obama is overweight by the standards used to arrive at these figures.
I would take that bet. Michelle Obama is fit, not fat. Her muscles are toned and well defined.

I really believe there are people sitting around and not getting any exercise and eating a diet high in fat and salt because "Michelle Obama is not going to tell me to eat healthy and get fit".

You have to wonder what this country has come to when when something as non partisan as eating healthy and getting plenty of exercise has come down to a matter of politics.

When Kennedy was president I dont recall anybody complaining because he was encouaging Americans to get fit. It was part of his agenda. The Obamas mention exercise and the conservatives freak out the Obamas trying to tell them what to eat.

My goodness. I say stay fat or get fat if you want to send a message to the Obamas..
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