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By coincidence, the discussion of who is wealthier is being discussed in some of the economic websites that I use. here's a handy chart:
The article goes on the discuss parity purchasing power vs exchange rates and other things that confuse people. Basically, China can be made to look like it's doing better than it actually is if the right numbers are plugged in.
I am not a fan of Chinese policy, and do not wish them well, but Germany is a different story. On the other hand Germany has 80M people, Mississippi has only 3M, so it is hard to make a real comparison.
There is this, though. All the fine things found in Germany may also be found in America. I may have to cross a state line (or two) to enjoy them, but they are all here. Then, when I am done, I can come home, which sounds far more appealing than putting up with traffic and congestion associated with living in, say, Chicago. Which is a day's drive away.
I do think there are some valid points above about Germany especially, in terms of how clean and orderly everything is. For example, from what I saw, if they build a Wal-Mart next to the interstate in Germany, it's literally hidden by a thick forest. You have to search to find things like Wal-Mart in Germany. While I overall dramatically prefer the freedom of the U.S. (e.g. everything open 24 hours a day and conveniently right off the frontage road!)...I do appreciate German standards for neatness and appearance.
I think Mary Hawkins in Madison was the first in Mississippi to champion that, more German, point of view, and I have to say whenever I want to go to Best Buy or even Kroger or Exxon in Jackson, I like to go to Madison because of the nice landscaping and architectural details. I mean who doesn't love an Exxon with Corinthian columns!!
I have the impression that America's tradition of individual freedom and property ownership have made it unthinkable until recently for a city to tell people how to design their buildings or require them to put in landscaping, and keep their signage below 5 feet tall etc, as in Madison. I can remember growing up thinking that if it's your property, it's un-Amercan for the government to tell you what to do with it and that would include requirements for landscaping, architectural details and signage. I.e. if someone wanted to put a kennel next to a residential subdivision next to a mini-warehouse next to an apartment complex next to a factory...then so be it since it's their property.
Now I think though, after seeing our cities overrun in the last few decades with so many blighted areas like Hwy 49 South, Hwy 80 east, and I-55N in Jackson, we decided as a culture enough was finally enough. I happen to love what Mary Hawkins has done, even if I might quibble over some of the actual architecture itself which often looks silly, i.e. requiring Baroque architecture on an Applebees. etc. But overall as a community, I think Madison has done a fabulous, fabulous job.
And my sense is that Germany is a generation ahead of America when it comes to city planning, as their culture is accustomed (apparently) to lots of government rules and regulations with fewer rights for individuals. Obviously that hasn't served Europe overall with so few economic opportunities for regular middle class people compared to America and including increasingly prosperous Mississippi...but I think Germany and similar areas of Europe, from what I've seen, look great. (But not everywhere, as I said earlier in regard to their hideous 1960s and 70s suburban/urban areas where most regular Europeans actually live.)
My sense is that in a generation, much of Mississippi will be like Madison and Oxford, with that march of progress beginning right now.
My sense is that in a generation, much of Mississippi will be like Madison and Oxford, with that march of progress beginning right now.
Not a chance. In a generation much of Madison and Oxford will still be like Madison and Oxford and most crappy areas will still be crappy. 20 years isnt going to fix anything in "much of Mississippi."
It is absurd to think places like the Delta will be Madison or Oxford like in a generation...or ten.
The reason I said that about Madison and Oxford is that historically per capita income in the U.S. has grown at about 2% a year, which means that it actually doubles about every 35 years. I got that just from reading the historical per capita income data going back at least to the 1950s.
So based on that, I looked at the per capita income averages for cities and counties around Mississippi, such as Tupelo, Columbus, and Hattiesburg, which as metro/micro areas tend to be right at the state average. If their median household incomes presently are around $40,000, then in roughly 35 years that figure should be around $80,000.
And although Madison's median household income is a little higher (in the 90s), it suggests that the nicer parts of these areas (at least the top half or top two-thirds) in smaller cities around Mississippi would indeed be right at the level that Madison is today, say 30 to 35 years.
Another interesting tidbit. If you look at median "family" income (rather than median household income), those figures always tend to be somewhat higher. Madison's I think is around $120,000 if memory serves.
Anyway, since Oxford and Starkville's data tends to be skewed by the large number of students, I have found that when you just look at families in those cities, they are already fairly close to Madison. I was amazed to see that but I guess it makes sense, given all the professors and university administrators, plus doctors and lawyers etc.
All that said, I wish the state would push harder along the Mississippi state highways to eliminate billboards, plant forests (that are not harvested for lumber every few years and replanted with pine saplings, etc), and implement Madison-style standards for landscaping, signage, and architecture. The interstates already look pretty nice but the 2-line and 4-line state highways, not so much.
That to me would go a long way towards getting a more modern, German, clean and green appearance. And since Mississippi statistically appears to have passed Germany in overall per capita income (GDP), I would think Mississippi could start thinking about higher standards, basically like Madison has, for the entire state, at least along the major 2-lane and 4-lane highways, etc.
The reason I said that about Madison and Oxford is that historically per capita income in the U.S. has grown at about 2% a year, which means that it actually doubles about every 35 years. I got that just from reading the historical per capita income data going back at least to the 1950s.
So based on that, I looked at the per capita income averages for cities and counties around Mississippi, such as Tupelo, Columbus, and Hattiesburg, which as metro/micro areas tend to be right at the state average. If their median household incomes presently are around $40,000, then in roughly 35 years that figure should be around $80,000.
And although Madison's median household income is a little higher (in the 90s), it suggests that the nicer parts of these areas (at least the top half or top two-thirds) in smaller cities around Mississippi would indeed be right at the level that Madison is today, say 30 to 35 years.
Another interesting tidbit. If you look at median "family" income (rather than median household income), those figures always tend to be somewhat higher. Madison's I think is around $120,000 if memory serves.
Anyway, since Oxford and Starkville's data tends to be skewed by the large number of students, I have found that when you just look at families in those cities, they are already fairly close to Madison. I was amazed to see that but I guess it makes sense, given all the professors and university administrators, plus doctors and lawyers etc.
All that said, I wish the state would push harder along the Mississippi state highways to eliminate billboards, plant forests (that are not harvested for lumber every few years and replanted with pine saplings, etc), and implement Madison-style standards for landscaping, signage, and architecture. The interstates already look pretty nice but the 2-line and 4-line state highways, not so much.
That to me would go a long way towards getting a more modern, German, clean and green appearance. And since Mississippi statistically appears to have passed Germany in overall per capita income (GDP), I would think Mississippi could start thinking about higher standards, basically like Madison has, for the entire state, at least along the major 2-lane and 4-lane highways, etc.
In 20 years or 50 years...whatever Mississippi is, it will still rank last or near last in most things even if things improve.
Mississippi is more prosperous than a lot of outsiders realize, particularly the ones whose worldview is based on outdated stereotypes from previous decades. But it's not all that comparable to Germany; the two places are just too different.
There is more upside and downside variation in the US, including Mississippi. For example, Germany's murder rate is around 0.8 per 100,000 people per year, while Mississippi's murder rate in 2013 was 6.5. But it's not really accurate to say that the average Mississippi resident is eight times more likely to be murdered than the average German. It's more like the average Mississippian is 2 or 3 times more likely to be murdered, while a smaller subpopulation within Mississippi is several dozen times more likely to be murdered.
Similarly with life expectancy, disease incidence, and so on. If you have it bad in Germany, it's probably still not that bad, unless you are genuinely homeless/destitute/mentally-ill. But if you have it bad in Mississippi, it can get really really bad.
For starters, I think the question about how Europeans and Japanese live is a good one.
I've been to Europe a few times over the years and yes, especially in the areas I went everything was pristine. I didn't see any areas that felt scary or looked unkempt or run down. There were lots of fancy stores and yes, it felt very nice, I have to say.
One thing I noticed about Europe is that once you get out of the historic areas with all the gorgeous architecture, and you get into the so-called suburbs, those areas have a different feel. Their suburbs are more like our downtown areas, particularly American downtowns where most of the buildings have been torn down and replaced with modernist buildings from the 60s and 70s, i.e. kind of bland in appearance but definitely not dead or anything like that. Plenty of people, plenty of stores etc. But the stores are mainly McDonalds, KFC, convenience stores etc.
The apartment buildings are all 10 stories roughly and kind of gray and bland. You never get to area area with regular subdivisions with the big houses and big yards like we have. Everything (almost) is urban and tall or mid-rise buildings, until you get the edge of town where it becomes rural quickly. I realized that the average Europeans live in apartments in these tall, bland buildings from the 60s and 70s, and likely the actual apartments are tiny by American home standards and probably not particularly updated on the inside.
In other words, their middle classes live in cramped, outdated, gray apartment buildings built in the 60s and 70s, and American middle classes live in 1,500 to 3,000 square foot single family homes on wooded, 1/4 to 1/2 to 1 acre lots. They walk outside their apartment buildings to a dense and somewhat ugly city environment and we live amid trees and yards (even moreso in Mississippi), 5 or 10 minutes from a fresh new Lowe's, Kroger, etc. For that matter in Mississippi, many, many people live on big acreage, i.e. 5, 10, or 20 plus acres. I really think Mississippi's middle classes are much more blessed than Europe's, in terms of economic opportunity.
And I have the impression that Europe is full of highly educated people such as engineers, for example, who end up driving a taxi or some other job outside their educational levels due to a total lack of jobs. And young people under 30 or 35 in many European countries must live with their parents unemployed due to lack of jobs. In America that's pretty unusual for middle class people, except perhaps in the last 5 years of rising taxes and regulations by the national government in the U.S.
In addition to being 100% wrong I hope you understand how much you are offending a country like Germany by making up these statements. Really, comparing a developed country with by far the most technologically advanced manufacturing worldwide to a state like Mississippi where people still live in slums and in swamps is just outrageous. I don't know what ax you have to grind with Germany or Europe, probably something WW2 related, but get over it and focus on the huge problems your own state has.
In addition to being 100% wrong I hope you understand how much you are offending a country like Germany by making up these statements. Really, comparing a developed country with by far the most technologically advanced manufacturing worldwide to a state like Mississippi where people still live in slums and in swamps is just outrageous. I don't know what ax you have to grind with Germany or Europe, probably something WW2 related, but get over it and focus on the huge problems your own state has.
In addition to being 100% wrong I hope you understand how much you are offending a country like Germany by making up these statements. Really, comparing a developed country with by far the most technologically advanced manufacturing worldwide to a state like Mississippi where people still live in slums and in swamps is just outrageous. I don't know what ax you have to grind with Germany or Europe, probably something WW2 related, but get over it and focus on the huge problems your own state has.
Yes, its not even close. But some states do pretty well - California produces about 70% of the GDP of Germany, and pretty close to the UK. Germany's ecomomy is stuttering now, its manufacturing is declining with large structural problems and poor leadership around the Euro.
Check wikipedia under GDP per capita by country, based purchasing power parity. Germany comes in around $39,000 and the US around $51,000, which means Germany comes in around say 78% of the US average.
Mississippi is about 67% of the US average in GDP per capita, but after factoring in Mississippi's lower cost of living compared to the US average, its effective GDP per capita adjusted for cost of living comes to maybe 75% of the US average. That puts Mississippi slightly below Germany at around 78% of the US average, except for that this year the US Dollar has become much stronger than the Euro, which effects purchasing power parity and should push Mississippi well past Germany this year.
I have no problem with Germany. I actually love Germany, which is why I selected it as a point of comparison, because indeed it seems very nice.
I've also talked with cab drivers in Germany with engineering degrees who are trying hard to move to America where they can significantly increase their employment and salary opportunities. I also said I was happy for someone to dispute the data with some facts. Let me add also that in comparing Germany to California, you are comparing the total rather than amount per person. Germany has something like 90 million people so of course it's going to be higher than a state in the U.S. But on a per capita basis, it's not that high.
Even western Germany which was never communist is a good 15% or more lower than the US average in GDP per capita. From what I've read, one difference is that in the U.S., the highest-income households are much, much wealthier than places like Sweden or the wealthier parts of Germany.
If you compare incomes of people at the 10th percentile (i.e. people whose incomes are higher than only 10% of the population) between the US and Sweden, incomes are about the same. The big difference occurs further down in the bottom 10%, where people in the US are far worse off, which could be related to behavioral issues (e.g. criminal behavior etc) that low-income Swedes and presumably Germans do not engage in at anywhere near the same rates.
Regardless, because of drastically better employment opportunities for educated and experienced people in America's economy, our wealthier higher-end households push America's overall income averages way past Germany, Sweden and similar countries in Europe. And with the fast-strengthening dollar and America's recent 5% growth rates, I'm fairly certain that indeed Mississippi has just passed Germany in per capita income/GDP levels.
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