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Old 06-24-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,104 posts, read 24,880,333 times
Reputation: 11146

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckin' Sam View Post
Fact is, people are in denial.
What is, "Southern Heritage" without slavery?

The United States... not just the South, was built on the back of slavery.
And all this double-talk around Patriotism Vs. State's Rights.

We have to come to grips with several things:
Change is the ONLY constant in life.
Problems arise not merely in choices.. but in attaching to... holding onto old choices rather than letting things flow through our hands like water.
Fact is, the Confederate flag is often flown along side of the Nazi German flag. That alone shows that it's a symbol of hatred, terrorism, and white supremacy.

The bigger issues is PRIDE.
"Pride cometh before a fall."
That's what happened during the Civil War, and that's what can happen next. More misery that divides and gives poor people the illusion of oppressing others. Only the super rich wins.

So what kind of future do you want to have?
It's clear that voting to hurt one segment of the population eventually hurts most everyone else.
Education, health care, longevity, MENTAL HEALTH, addiction, sexual abuse, Domestic Abuse, criminality, poor career forecasts??

If someone walks up to you and hands you a bag of crap... why hold onto it?
You have links to back that so called fact up?
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:23 AM
 
8,940 posts, read 5,079,640 times
Reputation: 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyreynolds1977 View Post
I hate that damn flag with a passion.
question, why do you hate the flag so much, what have the flag ever done to you, no serious, have you had an event where the wave the flag outside your house. or is all this hate was hand down to you from other elderly people.

yes i understand the klan people and to me they was stupid azz rednecks, but what i am asking you is, why the hate. other people could make the same argument over the gay rainbow flag or that tri color africian american flag. I just like to know, was their an an event for you to hate anything white in your life. Just trying to see the other side view, that all.
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:24 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,145,931 times
Reputation: 2357
Mississippi is a beautiful state.

That said, every single state in this Union that continues to fly the flag of insurrection and violence against our government over their state buildings should be cut off completely from US federal funding. Let's see how you like it when you no longer get paid to show disrespect and disloyalty for your own nation. You want to be a traitor? Then pay your own bills like one.

Mississippi is the #2 most dependent state in the nation on the federal government. You hate centralized government so much? Well how about you no longer benefit from it more than everybody else in the country? How about you actually have to start pulling your own weight as a state? How ironic that you have always flown a flag that represents hatred of our nation, and so-called "states' rights" supreme to even federal laws, when you don't even pay your own way and are on the national dole more than any other state besides New Mexico! Yeah, so independent. It's as disrespectful as a child spitting in their parents' face and saying they want to make their own decisions, and by the way I need you to buy me a car... That parent should cut that kid off until they learn some respect, and that's exactly how the US government and your brothers and sisters in other states should treat Mississippi and other states that fly that flag of treason, until they get right and show some respect and gratitude for being a part of our nation. This is the OPPOSITE of patriotism, this is the flag of those who hate the USA so much they wanted to kill half the people in it in a horrific war and leave.

The federal government funds 43.68% of Mississippi's entire state revenue, more than any other other state in the nation. And it's not even worth it, because for every $1 the federal government invests in Mississippi, we taxpayers from around the US LOSE $2.34 into the pockets of Mississippians. Mississippi has the absolute lowest per capita Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of any state in the nation, dead last at #50. Get off the dole and stand on your own two feet if you're going to fly the flag of separatism over the government buildings that the federal government paid for you to build and maintain. You hate the federal government so much? OK, let's see how you do when nearly 44% of your state's income is taken away forever. Enjoy drowning in your precious failed Confederacy.

Here is a link showing
2015’s States Most & Least Dependent on the Federal Government 2015

By the way, Red states are on average twice as dependent on the federal government as Blue states are: http://wallethub.com/edu/states-most...0/#red-vs-blue

Last edited by StarfishKey; 06-24-2015 at 08:41 AM..
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:35 AM
 
12 posts, read 11,347 times
Reputation: 98
Default (lol)

F. Scott Fitzgerald's American classic, "The Great Gatsby" illustrated the harmful excesses of Narcissism.

What is more, "Malignantly Narcissistic" than some dirty creep thinking he, "deserves" to own another human being??

We're now living in an time where, "The Age of Narcissism" has devolved into the "Age of Loneliness."

Narcissism is a Personality DISORDER.
Our thoughts create balance or imbalance.
Narcissist can't feel love or feel being loved. If they can't get you as their "supply" to love them, then they will GLADLY accept your hate. (After all... it's all about them, right?)

That flag is about Hate.
Pretty it up as much as you like, but it's about hate, terrorism, and slavery. Here's something I saw on Yahoo this morning about all the arguments for holding onto a 500 pound ball while trying to swim the ocean of change that is life. It lists the arguments FOR keeping the flag:

"The Civil War was about economics, not slavery!
* Yes, the Civil War was about the economics of slavery.

The Civil War was about states' rights, not slavery!
* Yes, the Civil War was about the states' right to maintain slavery.

That's not the Confederate flag!
* True, it's the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, which actually makes your usage even worse. It's the banner under which men fought and died to enact secession.

Heritage not hate!

* Funny story: The heritage is hate. This is my favorite talking point because it sets up a false dichotomy and then tries to pretend "heritage" is a signifier for some romantic, noble culture just waiting to be recaptured. When Lindsay Graham says things like, "The flag represents to some people a civil war, and that was the symbol of one side. To others it's a racist symbol, and it's been used by people, it's been used in a racist way," he makes a mockery of the history. Yes, Senator, it does represent one side of the Civil War: the side that advocated slavery and secession. It's the flag of treason.

The savagery of slavery is offensive enough to justify any level of outrage. The disgusting post-war history of the Ku Klux Klan is offensive enough to justify any level of outrage. But what might be the most absurd part of this neo-Confederate "heritage" romanticism is that its advocates are simply glorifying treason.

Remember that time South Carolina attacked Fort Sumter? That's the literal definition of treason. And I quote Article III, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." Not exactly abstract legalese that requires a ton of parsing."


M. Scott Peck wrote that Mental Health is synonymouswith Spiritual Health.
Half the church population is addicted to porn. (... more loneliness and isolation...)
Americans currently take 80% of the world's psych meds, illegal drugs, and pain killers ... and we're not even talking about alcohol. It's clear our present course just isn't working!

The rest of the article is food for thought:
Yes, You're a Racist -- And a Traitor*|*John E. Price
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,792 posts, read 3,895,415 times
Reputation: 4302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert kid View Post
And what of the monuments?
More than several have now been vandalized across the South today.
On one hand you have monuments erected to honor the memory of fallen soldiers (most of whom were forcibly conscripted and very few if any actually owned slaves). Even flying the Confederate Battle Flag over the monuments to armies that flew the flag in combat would be similar. They are just reminders... "Something bad happened in this location a long time ago, and these people died." The smart thing would be to leave them and learn from them.

On the other hand you have a flag used as a symbol of racism and hate and oppression for decades being used as part of a symbol that represents an entire modern state. It would be as if Germany modified their flag to add a swastika in the canton, telling surviving Jews and Gypsies it's all about "heritage, not hate".

Huge difference between the two. Vandalizing CSA monuments is just as much a crime as vandalizing WWII monuments, or vandalizing Trail of Tears monuments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyreynolds1977 View Post
I don't care what they said on the news. That has been the state flag since 1894.
Not to quibble on details, but:
- The flag under discussion was adopted in 1894. It was Georgia that added the Southern Cross to their flag during the Civil Rights era.
- MS did a complete re-boot of the entire legal code in 1906 to get rid of old laws. Every law that wasn't specifically re-adopted was eliminated. One of the eliminated laws was the one talking about the flag. Technically, from 1906 until 2001, Mississippi did not legally have an official state flag, but no one realized this and the flag kept flying out of habit and tradition.
- Gov. Musgrove appointed a commission to redesign the flag in January, 2001.
- The Mississippi legislature ignored the redesign and formally re-adopted the 1894 flag in February, 2001.
- A non-binding ballot initiative went before the voters in April, 2001. The voters choose the 1894 flag over the boring 2001 flag.
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:46 AM
 
284 posts, read 259,150 times
Reputation: 715
I had never read Mississippi's Declaration of Secession, so I wanted to read it for myself to get a better understanding of why the state seceded, and then chose to adopt the confederate battle flag as the state flag. After reading it, secession was first and foremost about keeping slavery viable and the state's economic interests in tact. So come on folks, 150 years later, is this truly the "southern heritage" that we're proud of and want to be recognized for. If so, then I guess Mississippi earns it's reputation as being racist and backwards. We fight so hard in this state to dispel this reputation and the stereotypes people in other areas have about us, but our insistence on keeping this symbol of divisiveness in the name of honoring our "southern heritage" is a sad commentary and a real hindrance to our future growth and prosperity. In my opinion, it's time to move out of the 1800's and adopt a flag that reflects the positive attributes of this State and all it's people.


Mississippi's Declaration of Secession:

In the momentous step, which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.
The hostility to this institution commenced before the adoption of the Constitution, and was manifested in the well-known Ordinance of 1787, in regard to the Northwestern Territory.

The feeling increased, until, in 1819-20, it deprived the South of more than half the vast territory acquired from France.

The same hostility dismembered Texas and seized upon all the territory acquired from Mexico.
It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.

It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.

It tramples the original equality of the South under foot.

It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact, which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.

It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.

It has enlisted its press, its pulpit and its schools against us, until the whole popular mind of the North is excited and inflamed with prejudice.

It has made combinations and formed associations to carry out its schemes of emancipation in the States and wherever else slavery exists.

It seeks not to elevate or to support the slave, but to destroy his present condition without providing a better.

It has invaded a State, and invested with the honors of martyrdom the wretch whose purpose was to apply flames to our dwellings, and the weapons of destruction to our lives.

It has broken every compact into which it has entered for our security.

It has given indubitable evidence of its design to ruin our agriculture, to prostrate our industrial pursuits and to destroy our social system.

It knows no relenting or hesitation in its purposes; it stops not in its march of aggression, and leaves us no room to hope for cessation or for pause.

It has recently obtained control of the Government, by the prosecution of its unhallowed schemes, and destroyed the last expectation of living together in friendship and brotherhood.

Utter subjugation awaits us in the Union, if we should consent longer to remain in it. It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity. We must either submit to degradation, and to the loss of property worth four billions of money, or we must secede from the Union framed by our fathers, to secure this as well as every other species of property. For far less cause than this, our fathers separated from the Crown of England.

Our decision is made. We follow their footsteps. We embrace the alternative of separation; and for the reasons here stated, we resolve to maintain our rights with the full consciousness of the justice of our course, and the undoubting belief of our ability to maintain it.

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Old 06-24-2015, 09:36 AM
 
639 posts, read 634,193 times
Reputation: 642
Nice post.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,792 posts, read 3,895,415 times
Reputation: 4302
Thank you for posting that, Drift Away; I have never read it. I count that eleven of thirty-one sentences (over one third of the document!) either directly references slavery or speaks of the consequences of eliminating slavery.

Heritage, eh?
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:27 AM
 
1,331 posts, read 1,013,832 times
Reputation: 1092
I don't believe that everyone that supports the state flag or the Confederate flag are racist by any means but I am reminded of a quote from a newspaper article that was printed around the time of the murders in Neshoba County in the summer of 1964:

"Deep angers and frustrations now motivate the Klansman. He is rebelling against his own ignorance, ignorance that restricts him to the hard and poorly paid jobs that are becoming scarcer every day. He is angered by the knowledge that the world is passing him by, that he is sinking lower and lower in the social order. The Negro is his scapegoat, for he knows that so long as the Negro can be kept ‘in his place’ , there will be somebody on the social and economic scale who is lower than he. In the Klavern in his robes, repeating the ancient ritual, he finds the status that is denied him on the outside."

-Kenneth Fairly and Harold Martin – The Saturday Evening Post

Last edited by Jardine8; 06-24-2015 at 10:55 AM..
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:31 AM
 
639 posts, read 634,193 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jardine8 View Post
I don't believe that everyone that supports the state flag or the Confederate flag are racist by any means but I am reminded of a quote from a newspaper article that was printed around the time of the murders in Neshoba County in the summer of 1964:

"Deep angers and frustrations now motivate the Klansman. He is rebelling against his own ignorance, ignorance that restricts him to thehard and poorly paid jobs that are becoming scarcer every day. He is angered bythe knowledge that the world is passing him by, that he is sinking lower andlower in the social order. The Negro is his scapegoat, for he knows that so long asthe Negro can be kept ‘in his place’ , there will be somebody on the social andeconomic scale who is lower than he. In the Klavern in his robes, repeating theancient ritual, he finds the status that is denied him on the outside."

-Kenneth Fairly and Harold Martin – The Saturday Evening Post
I agree with your that they aren't racist in of themselves. But what that flag symbolizes can't be denied.
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