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Old 06-24-2015, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
1,070 posts, read 2,113,454 times
Reputation: 1416

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Jim Crow in the North - In These Times

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35 states had Jim Crow laws...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mples_by_state
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Southeast Arizona
3,191 posts, read 4,132,514 times
Reputation: 2104
I have been hearing that the MS legislature MAY call in a special session.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:46 PM
 
639 posts, read 634,010 times
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I haven't heard anything yet no media outlet here is reporting a special session. If they do anything it won't be until the next legislative session in January.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Jackson, Mississippi
204 posts, read 162,616 times
Reputation: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
1)
4) Personally, I believe the flag flown during Mississippi's actual time in the CSA both does a better job of representing Mississippi and wouldn't be as race-baiting. Anyone truly interested in heritage would love it because of its history during the CSA. Anyone who hates the Confederate Battle Flag would love it because it's not the Confederate Battle Flag. And everyone loves Magnolia trees.

"The Magnolia Flag"
I'm sorry, but I'd have to totally disagree with the 1861 Mississippi flag. It's too representative of the "Moonlight and Magnolias" theme they had going on back in those days. To me, the magnolia is also too much.

What we need is to go back further to our history as the first lone star country and make our state flag this flag:


Flag trouble stirs again.-bonnie-blue-flag.jpg

I mean, no one remembers that southern Mississippi, along with all of Southeastern Louisiana west or north of Lake Pontchatrain (also east of the Mississippi River) was the Republic of West Florida, and I think it'd be a good reminder of some of our overlooked national heritage anyway.
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:24 AM
 
9,778 posts, read 16,962,550 times
Reputation: 18389
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Demanding that these flags be removed is a move in hatred against Southern heritage. Maybe we should make a deal with the people wanting it. We will take the flag down if you will start supporting yourselves. The discussion would stop immediately.

As you can see on this forum, it is O. K. to do Southern bashing. But post an effective post putting Southern bashers in their place and see what happens to it.

The South was violently beaten but they could not beat our spirit. We have pulled ourselves up and made a better life for ourselves than the rest of the country or that must be the case because they all seem to want to move to where we are. If black people think life would be so much better elsewhere, let them move there and they will be back where people treat each other with respect in a couple of years.

You might want to think about biting the hands that feed you unless you are ready to start feeding yourselves.

What makes you think that only black people are on welfare? Do you not understand the welfare demographic of the South in general and Mississippi in particular? What makes you think that only Black people want the flag to go?
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA/Lk Hopatcong NJ
13,103 posts, read 24,874,667 times
Reputation: 11136
This is way out of control, first the flag, then the toy maker removing it from the Dukes of Hazzard car, now your neighbor over there in New Orleans wants to remove the statute of General Lee in Lee Circle....GASP....I'm appalled and I'm a dam yankee.

Gen Lee was instrumental in securing the US victory in the Mexican/American war.
He was instrumental in the healing after the Civil War.
They still teach his battle methods at West Point!!

So we wipe out all this? Are we going to rewrite the history books as well??

Has Mitch lost his mind??

IMO politicians and corporate America are using this horrific tragedy to thrust themselves in the limelight....hope it back fires on them big time.
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Old 06-25-2015, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,792 posts, read 3,893,694 times
Reputation: 4296
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmerich01 View Post
I'm sorry, but I'd have to totally disagree with the 1861 Mississippi flag. It's too representative of the "Moonlight and Magnolias" theme they had going on back in those days. To me, the magnolia is also too much.

What we need is to go back further to our history as the first lone star country and make our state flag this flag:


I mean, no one remembers that southern Mississippi, along with all of Southeastern Louisiana west or north of Lake Pontchatrain (also east of the Mississippi River) was the Republic of West Florida, and I think it'd be a good reminder of some of our overlooked national heritage anyway.
Too much of the wrong symbolism with that flag. It was the first flag raised over Mississippi after secession (never formally adopted). It was flown over multiple areas that declared themselves free republics (West Florida, Texas, etc.). Raising that flag over modern Mississippi would be like flipping the bird to the rest of the country; it would be worse than the current flag.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:12 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,145,353 times
Reputation: 2357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert kid View Post
We are a democracy are we not? A state flag is more than appropriate to vote on.
This nation was NEVER a democracy. You need to go back to school. In the idealistic form, we were built to be a republic. (Read up on the electoral college.) However, we are more a combination of corporate capitalist oligarchy and a republic.

There is a reason our Constitution was set up specifically to discount the votes of the general public. The "Founding Fathers" were rich white men who distrusted any poor working man who did not own property or have access to formal education, which in those days you had to pay for yourself as there was no such thing as public schools. They wrote many times that they did not want to give many rights or ability for determination to landless white men, much less ANY women or ANY people of color. But sure enough, their concern does play out repeatedly, even in modern times. When we let the masses rule, they vote repeatedly AGAINST our own Constitution. More so in Mississippi and other Southern hard-Red states than elsewhere, on Civil Rights issues. Mississippi is always one of the last to the party when it comes to waking up and considering the rights of anyone but rich white men.

Treason is still illegal. The Federal government should have the right to step in and demand that any insurrectionist flag be taken down from all government buildings. All the more so because Mississippi is more dependent on the Federal government for its state funds, and takes more in tax dollars per capita, than any other state in the country. 44% of Mississippi's state income comes from the federal dole. You can't fly a flag against the US government over a state that is nearly half paid for by that US government. There is little one can do to be more offensive than that to the entire nation, and every other state in the Union you are flipping the bird to.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:34 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,145,353 times
Reputation: 2357
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhadorn View Post
Many of the people who do so are not racist, and don't even correlate the flag with racism. Many atrocities also happened under the flag of the United States of America against Native Americans, Irish, Chinese, Jews, and Italians, but it's not convenient to remember this.

One of the most telling facts regarding the civil war and slavery is that slavery was not an issue UNTIL AFTER the south threatened to secede from the Union. Hell, New York City was built with slave labor, slaves were traded in Boston...

The idea that the US flag was flown over atrocities is not a valid argument. That is absolutely true, but it is not in our CONSTITUTION that our country was founded on the intentional subjugation of any of the various groups of people we ended up fighting or killing. The Confederate Constitution, and all of the state succession papers, specifically point to the "inherent inferiority" of Black people, and the intention to build their state and new nation on the institution of slavery.

The second argument is so off I don't even know where you got it except some racist Confederate rag. Slavery was an issue in this country, and well-documented to be so, from the early 1700s. There were even religious concerns voiced about it in papers from the 1600s in the US, although at that time it was really indentured servitude and not so racially focused. Abolitionists were well-known and very outspoken in the 1800s WELL before the Civil War. If you did even the slightest, easiest amount of research about this topic, you would see countless documents proving you wrong, so it's hard to even say anything other than... you've got to be kidding me! Lincoln was a racist and didn't give a crap about slavery, that is also well-documented. And of course there was both slavery and racism in the North. But there is no doubt that MANY influential people in the US were very concerned about slavery, and started fighting about it long before the Civil War broke out. Many were against it on religious and moralist grounds, some on economic or political grounds, some concerned about international policy. But it was most definitely an issue, globally as well as in the US, even from the beginning of the TransAtlantic slave trade in the 1500s.

Look up "abolitionist history," and you'll find that any of the first few documents you find will immediately discredit your ridiculous comment that "slavery was not an issue until the South threatened to secede." Your easiest proof of that, without having to read a bunch of primary documents, is the decision from 1820 that no new slaves were to be imported, hence trying to phase slavery out (which economically had another reason - they focused instead on "breeding," which was free). Additionally, you can look to the decisions of every new state entered into the Union during that time, with the 3/5 Compromise and the establishment of the Mason-Dixon line.

Honestly, the proof that slavery was an issue before secession is so extensive that it seems stupid and a waste of time even to have to point it out. But there are a great many people in this country who do not know almost anything about our national history, or have only been taught select bits and pieces.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:46 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,145,353 times
Reputation: 2357
Quote:
Originally Posted by njkate View Post
Are we going to rewrite the history books as well??
Oh, you mean how states across the South are rewriting their school textbooks to change history? Like to downplay the cruelties of slavery, or to take it and any other Civil Rights oppression of disempowered groups out of the books entirely?

The Tennessee Tea Party, attempting to change state law which will then require re-written history textbooks, wrote: "“no portrayal of minority experience in the history which actually occurred shall obscure the experience or contributions of the Founding Fathers, or the majority of citizens, including those who reached positions of leadership.”


Texas OKs school textbook changes - US news - Life | NBC News

Tennessee Tea Party: Take slavery out of school textbooks | MSNBC


If anyone wants to rewrite history books to change the truth about our nation's history of slavery, violence, and insurrection, it is coming directly from those people who wave the Confederate flag and want to "celebrate Southern heritage" - a rewritten Southern heritage which was much more violent, hate-filled, and depraved in actual history than they want to remember. The North was (and is) plenty racist too, but at least their history books honor THAT history - it is written about extensively in textbooks for children, up through modern struggles in the last decades of the 20th century, and beyond.
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