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Old 02-12-2017, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Deep 13
1,161 posts, read 1,055,588 times
Reputation: 3489

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
I absolutely agree. Maybe some Mississippians could pay those Meddlists a visit, up in Wisconsin, to audit THEIR adherence to the minutia of constitutionality and Political Correctness?

As much as I abhor religion cropping-up in inappropriate places (such as Football games - something I personally consider BLASPHEMY, on top of being totally trashy and maudlin), I DOUBLY abhor crazed Yankees going down to Mississippi, trying to FORCE Mississippians to amend their ways.
Sounds like a Christian sanctuary city.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Mount Prospect, Illinois
99 posts, read 98,687 times
Reputation: 148
I'm a staunch atheist, a progressive, and a Chicagoan.

But I side with the residents of this small Mississippi town. For crying out loud, it's a piece of cloth. If you're offended by it, you really must not have any real problems. It's a small town in the South where the vast majority if not all residents are Christians. Let 'em do what they want.
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:39 PM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,206 posts, read 3,582,066 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Polak View Post
I'm a staunch atheist, a progressive, and a Chicagoan.

But I side with the residents of this small Mississippi town. For crying out loud, it's a piece of cloth. If you're offended by it, you really must not have any real problems. It's a small town in the South where the vast majority if not all residents are Christians. Let 'em do what they want.
You just don't get it.

No town in the USA, no matter how small and remote, gets to violate the US Constitution. They might get away with it, but that doesn't make it legal.
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Old 02-12-2017, 10:19 PM
 
Location: New Mexico via Ohio via Indiana
1,624 posts, read 1,625,242 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Polak View Post
I'm a staunch atheist, a progressive, and a Chicagoan.

But I side with the residents of this small Mississippi town. For crying out loud, it's a piece of cloth. If you're offended by it, you really must not have any real problems. It's a small town in the South where the vast majority if not all residents are Christians. Let 'em do what they want.
About fifty years ago, much of the rest of the country felt the same way as you about A LOT of things going on in small towns in Mississippi. Good thing some people had the guts to stand up for what was right.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:15 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
18,995 posts, read 11,281,484 times
Reputation: 27122
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
You just don't get it.

No town in the USA, no matter how small and remote, gets to violate the US Constitution. They might get away with it, but that doesn't make it legal.
"Congress shall make no laws...". And congress didn't.

As knowledgeable people said, there were no laws broken and the case would not have held up in court.
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Southern California
486 posts, read 594,272 times
Reputation: 1442
I rather doubt that we're teetering on the brink of a theocracy, but according to the Freedom From Religion foundation, it is of the utmost importance that we actively "work to promote nontheism and...." Several years years ago I probably would have joined this group of 27,000 angry freethinkers. I still donate to the Skeptical Inquirer on occasion.

My opinion now is that this demand to take down the Christian flag is just mean spirited. I feel embarrassed for them. In 2015 I think the City of Santa Monica in California upheld a ban on a nativity scene that had been a tradition for many years.

Last edited by Seadory; 02-13-2017 at 06:06 PM..
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Old 02-13-2017, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
10,062 posts, read 10,723,223 times
Reputation: 7168
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpl1228 View Post
About fifty years ago, much of the rest of the country felt the same way as you about A LOT of things going on in small towns in Mississippi. Good thing some people had the guts to stand up for what was right.
So flying a Christian flag is the same as supporting racism?
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:36 AM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,206 posts, read 3,582,066 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
As knowledgeable people said, there were no laws broken and the case would not have held up in court.
So you missed, or willfully ignored, the several postings in the thread that explained how the first amendment has been clarified through various court cases over the years? And indeed, flying a Christian flag over a government facility most certainly would have lost in a court challenge.

The small town knows they would lose, which is why they capitulated - not having resources to fight is just their spin. They could have enlisted the assistance of any number of right-wing organizations to fight on their behalf. But no one's going to fight this.

I won't call it a lie, but your statement that I copied is definitely a falsehood.
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,894 posts, read 4,344,218 times
Reputation: 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpl1228 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windy City Polak View Post
It's a small town in the South where the vast majority if not all residents are Christians. Let 'em do what they want.
About fifty years ago, much of the rest of the country felt the same way as you about A LOT of things going on in small towns in Mississippi. Good thing some people had the guts to stand up for what was right.
So flying a Christian flag is the same as supporting racism?
Nice non sequitur. No, flying a Christian flag is NOT the same as supporting racism. A display of exuberant support for a religion founded on love and forgiveness for all races and peoples is one thing. Supporting the belief that one race is superior and another should be denied rights is completely different.

But back to the first quote above. Even if the "vast majority" of locals support a view, they should not have the authority to infringe on the rights on others. This applies to all rights, including the right to free speech, the right to have a voice in how tax dollars are spent, and the right to the pursuit of happiness. A quote (often misattributed to Ben Franklin) goes, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is when the lamb has a gun and can contest the vote." Instead of a gun, the minority in this case is using a lawyer.

Earlier I mentioned a hypothetical muslim-majority town in the USA, asking if it was OK for them to fly an Islamic flag over public property. Turns out such a town exists: Hamtramck, MI. Instead of church bells, loudspeakers proclaim Calls to Prayer throughout the day in Arabic. As the majority of citizens and a majority of the city council is Muslim, do the people here believe it is acceptable for them to vote to spend Christian taxpayer money on an Islamic flag to fly over public property? Should we "Let 'em do what they want"? If it applies to a Muslim majority city in Michigan, it applies to a Christian majority city in Mississippi.

What's Life Like in America's First City with a Muslim Majority City Council
Or for an extremist conservative slant:
Shariahville, USA: Cities ‘surrender’ to Islam

Last edited by An Einnseanair; 02-14-2017 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,894 posts, read 4,344,218 times
Reputation: 4651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
"Congress shall make no laws...". And congress didn't.
As knowledgeable people said, there were no laws broken and the case would not have held up in court.
If you are referring to me, I said no criminal laws had been broken, so no jail time. And while I agree that proving someone had been financially harmed would be difficult (maybe impossible), I never said their wasn't a valid legal case for a civil suit. In addition to actual damages (<$0.01 of an atheist's taxes went to support purchasing the flag) there are also punitive damages and damages for mental stress.

A childhood friend was a devout Catholic, but I never knew it growing up in a protestant-dominated area of rural Mississippi. No one did. Much later she confided in me that her family had actually been scared to talk about religion around home. Too much ignorance, which tends to lead to fear, which tends to lead to violence. I understood her fear, because one of my college roommates was an extremist Baptist. He firmly believed that Catholicism, (with more worldwide practitioners than all other Christian denominations combined) was a Satanic cult. It turns out a lot of rural Protestants held the same beliefs; this was during the time of the Troubles, when Protestant/Catholic tensions were high because of the fighting in Northern Ireland. Her rights to the pursuit of happiness had been infringed.

I have friends, acquaintances, and co-workers who belong to a huge variety of Christian denominations along with other religions. Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Baptist, Methodist, [lots of other main-stream Protestant denominations], Unitarian, Charismatic, 7th Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Hindu, Muslim, and Jewish. From extreme conservative to extreme liberal. As a Christian (core teaching: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you) and a believer in southern hospitality I would never intentionally do anything to offend them. Flying a Christian flag at my house, church, or business would not cause offence. Using their tax money to help pay for a Christian flag flying over taxpayer-owned property would.

Separation of Church and State seems so easy and obvious to me. The private citizens, businesses, and churches in that town have the right and freedom fly all the flags they want. Just don't spend taxpayer money to do it. If they just have to fly the Christian flag over that specific spot it's easy... sell 0.001 acre with the flagpole to an LLC with local citizens on the board for $1. Then proceed to fly any flag they want.

Last edited by An Einnseanair; 02-14-2017 at 08:19 AM..
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