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Old 08-02-2008, 07:04 AM
 
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One of the great social trends of recent times has been the economic and demographic supercharging of the south, with cities such as Charlotte and Atlanta growing explosively, both in terms of population and economic output. This has advantages and drawbacks.

But Mississippi really hasn't been part of this trend of explosive growth. The population is nearing 3 million, but it was already at 2.5 million all the way back in 1980, and has grown slowly since then. Compare to Georgia, which was under 5.5 million in 1980, and is now estimated at over 9.5 million.

Similarly, the Atlanta metro area used to have under 3 million people not that long ago, and now has over 5.6 million. Jackson's metro area has grown as well, but it's still not much over 500,000, and seems to have lost influence in the south relative to the position it used to have.

I guess I have two questions about all this:

-Why do you think the "Sunbelt boom" hasn't really touched Mississippi compared to other southern states, and

-Do you prefer it that way? Might it be better that Jackson isn't a metropolis of 2 million, or that MS doesn't have 6 million people rather than 3 million?
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:36 AM
 
51 posts, read 219,906 times
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I am thinking that perhaps it is because many of the big companies have set up shop in places like Atlanta. As more companies come to MS more people will follow, I know as for myself, I lived on the coast 20 years ago. Even after returning here after 3 years away from katrina I notice how much more is here than say, 20 years ago, the casinos brought a big influx of people and more businesses, no, not as big as say Reno or Atlantic city, hopefully not. Perhaps, it is because many of the people from the coast hold on to tradition and refuse to be sold out to big driven condos, etc. Like Florida, I personally enjoy the smaller, not so much cookie cutter look that most big Florida towns have. Although, Biloxi is somewhat beginning to become more like that in my opinion.
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,914 posts, read 4,251,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
One of the great social trends of recent times has been the economic and demographic supercharging of the south, with cities such as Charlotte and Atlanta growing explosively, both in terms of population and economic output. This has advantages and drawbacks.

But Mississippi really hasn't been part of this trend of explosive growth. The population is nearing 3 million, but it was already at 2.5 million all the way back in 1980, and has grown slowly since then. Compare to Georgia, which was under 5.5 million in 1980, and is now estimated at over 9.5 million.

Similarly, the Atlanta metro area used to have under 3 million people not that long ago, and now has over 5.6 million. Jackson's metro area has grown as well, but it's still not much over 500,000, and seems to have lost influence in the south relative to the position it used to have.

I guess I have two questions about all this:

-Why do you think the "Sunbelt boom" hasn't really touched Mississippi compared to other southern states, and

-Do you prefer it that way? Might it be better that Jackson isn't a metropolis of 2 million, or that MS doesn't have 6 million people rather than 3 million?
There's a Nissan plant in Canton, and Toyota is going in at Tupelo. It's not all for fraught, and I don't think the Mississippi folks really worry too much about growth. It's fine just like it is.

In my hometown - Cleveland - several ventures have come and gone over the years. The Delta is still by and large a farming area, and the land is worth too much to just fork over to large corporations to come in, build like crazy, then vacate the premises, leaving falling down construction in its wake. Just my opinion, that's all.
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Old 08-02-2008, 08:52 AM
 
57 posts, read 192,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
One of the great social trends of recent times has been the economic and demographic supercharging of the south, with cities such as Charlotte and Atlanta growing explosively, both in terms of population and economic output. This has advantages and drawbacks.

But Mississippi really hasn't been part of this trend of explosive growth. The population is nearing 3 million, but it was already at 2.5 million all the way back in 1980, and has grown slowly since then. Compare to Georgia, which was under 5.5 million in 1980, and is now estimated at over 9.5 million.

Similarly, the Atlanta metro area used to have under 3 million people not that long ago, and now has over 5.6 million. Jackson's metro area has grown as well, but it's still not much over 500,000, and seems to have lost influence in the south relative to the position it used to have.

I guess I have two questions about all this:

-Why do you think the "Sunbelt boom" hasn't really touched Mississippi compared to other southern states, and

-Do you prefer it that way? Might it be better that Jackson isn't a metropolis of 2 million, or that MS doesn't have 6 million people rather than 3 million?


I don't live in Mississippi yet, but I think your comparisons are unfair and slightly misleading.


**Atlanta waged one of the biggest PR MARKETING campaigns,
actively publicizing their city as a "black mecca"--that has ever
been waged.

$40 to 50 million a year was spent on NATIONWIDE advertising
and Propoganda to give Atlanta a shining and appealing ID.

This is why I felt Jackson, MS would have been smart to embrace
and carry out the Twin Lakes/Casino Island whatever it was plan.

That would have "beautified" Jackson's ugliest eyesore--the Pearl
River dirge and it would have allowed for a "Resort-like" appearance
for MS. to publicize on a national scale.

It would have given Jackson a glamorous LANDMARK like the bigger cities have (St. Paul's arches,
NYC's Skyscrapers, LA's movie industry, etc.).



**HOUSTON's BOOM since 1980 was actually bigger than Atlanta's.
Houston is larger and richer than Atlanta, and it's the same group
that created the boom in Houston---middle class blacks.



**Next...Atlanta and Charlotte are both conveniently located on one of
the nation's 2 Major Seaboards and are already in line with
several Multi-Million Plus Metro areas that were already traveling
through those areas going to either NY, D.C. or Philly in the North
...or Miami, Jacksonville and Tidewater in the South.

90% of the "boom" has been Black People.

A HUGE number of those were Black Females--who in the last 20
years--have struggled with special social circumstances resulting in
them searching for two things

(a) Affordable 'cheap' places to survive as single mothers
(I live in California and can't tell you how many BW
have abandonded states like Ca, Oreg. and Wash. state
due to the "Interracial Boom" for instance. As many were
not finding mates or careers in California, they went back
south---the Black Population in S. Cal. has dropped from about
19% in 1985 to just 6% in 2008.)
(b) more Traditional and Community-oriented places that were
already a part of their heritage.

A Second Huge number of those blacks were Highly Educated
1st generation "black careerists" (think The Huxtables) who found
it far easier to set up Law Firms and other businesses fairly large
Southern Cities where they could AFFORD to establish dynasties
quickly.



**Next....Huntsville, Alabama has a been a BOOM city just as much as
Charlotte, S. Carolina in that regard. MANY black doctors, lawyers and
other middle class blacks have gone there, bought up property and
started businesses, built mansions. There was a LIST of the Best
Cities in America for "black elite" and Huntsville was #1.


***NEXT...Stereotypes.

Mississippi is believed to have been the most virally racist of all the
Southern slave-owning states. All over America, people have images
of fat white people in Clan's sheets. It's totally FALSE, but unfortunately
that's the IMAGE that America has of MS.

Also...the ferociously humid summers and "Mosquitoes" probably scare
of a large number of people who aren't used to


***LAST...I really believe that Jackson MS. is about to turn all this
around.

Mississippi is a GORGEOUSLY beautiful state with (in my opinion) the
nicest, most easy-going citizens in America.

The crime in MS. seems intense to people who live in MS., but it's
actually not that bad, because it's "contained"---it's not statewide.

Because the cost of living here is so very low--many people are
becoming interested in this state.

All it takes is a good PR campaign and the right "pop culture" event
to shine a light on Jackson, MS.

That is why myself and others are planning to do something about
Jackson's lack of "night life" (see my thread called "OK...FESS UP").
I go into detail about what myself and other investors are cooking
up for Post 2010.

Jackson is DEFINITELY a city to look out for in the next decade.
Mark my words. This city's about to kick some tail.
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Old 08-02-2008, 08:58 AM
 
1,350 posts, read 3,619,286 times
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I am no expert and probably an economist needs to give the facts here. However, on an anecdotal level, I don't agree that the boom has left Mississippi in the lurch. It depends on your starting point.

Measured against itself Mississippi has had a boom. It may not be averaged out because of the poverty in the Delta and the rural areas. Tupelo, Hattiesburg, and the coast before Katrina were booming and growing rapidly. I am not familiar with the Southhaven area but maybe someone else could weigh in about it.

Mississipppi doesn't really have a metropolitan area that would rival Atlanta or even Birmingham or Mobile. Thus, it isn't going to have major industry and corporate America flowing in like these places do. Yet Nissan and Toyota have come.

Jackson is a problem city in my opinion because of the "white flight". I don't fault people for leaving the metro area. It has its problems and the general culture of poverty and crime causes decay. Its suburbs are booming though, are they not?

Mississippi is a rural state decimated by a war and then its own policies of injustice. One in four persons is on Medicaid and it struggles with an underclass that arose from its past. It has left its horror behind and now has a culture of equal opportunity and empowerment. It is uneven in its gains and uneven in its demographics. However, it has come a long long way and is in its own way "booming".

Regarding the other question--I hope it doesn't explode in population and that the "concrete jungle" and sprawl stay away. I can see what is happening where my family lives in the Lehigh Valley of Pa. NYC sprawl is hitting big time and the beautiful countryside, peaceful havens, charm, and ease of living is rapidly declining. The McMansions are taking over and they are horrendous.
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Old 06-05-2011, 02:50 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,485 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
One of the great social trends of recent times has been the economic and demographic supercharging of the south, with cities such as Charlotte and Atlanta growing explosively, both in terms of population and economic output. This has advantages and drawbacks.

But Mississippi really hasn't been part of this trend of explosive growth. The population is nearing 3 million, but it was already at 2.5 million all the way back in 1980, and has grown slowly since then. Compare to Georgia, which was under 5.5 million in 1980, and is now estimated at over 9.5 million.

Similarly, the Atlanta metro area used to have under 3 million people not that long ago, and now has over 5.6 million. Jackson's metro area has grown as well, but it's still not much over 500,000, and seems to have lost influence in the south relative to the position it used to have.

I guess I have two questions about all this:

-Why do you think the "Sunbelt boom" hasn't really touched Mississippi compared to other southern states, and

-Do you prefer it that way? Might it be better that Jackson isn't a metropolis of 2 million, or that MS doesn't have 6 million people rather than 3 million?
Affirmative action is destroying Mississippi!
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:39 PM
Status: "I'm an Unmherkun puppy-kicking Socialist" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,032 posts, read 2,115,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn
-Why do you think the "Sunbelt boom" hasn't really touched Mississippi compared to other southern states
Historically (1960s to 1990s): It's due to the strong gaps in education attainment falling largely along racial lines. Furthermore, during that time period, among industrial scouts seeking new places to set up shop, their own racism is combined with those scouts belief that blacks, due to their civil rights background, are more prone to unionization.

Modern (1990-present): Lingering vestiges of the past (it takes generations to purge such attitudes from the system to the point where race ceases to be a real issue - especially among the powers that be). Furthermore, there are too many people who want to "keep things the way they are". Even many of those that don't want to keep things the way they are are still stuck in promoting "low wages" as a selling point (which, to be fair, is about all communities with low education attainment can hope for). There's also the feeling that places like Atlanta and the big Texas cities are not as hidebound as Mississippi - which many see as too closely wed to tradition, convention, and if your great-grandparents were from Mississippi, etc (none are codespeak for racism, I mean those terms in the face-value sense). That not only repels a lot of non-conformist and eccentric but brillant young adults, but drives away such youth and young adults who are native here - even multigenerational native ones.
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Old 05-30-2012, 08:29 AM
 
12,258 posts, read 18,390,529 times
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Forget about the "sunbelt boom", what you are seeing are two trends - retiree's and some workers moving south for cheaper costs of living, and rural population moving to urban centers. MS doesn't have a Charlotte or Atlanta, that is - a sizable urban center (is Jackson even remotely comparable? No). MS also doesn't have a retirement area, except for a bit around the gulf coast. MS is a rural agriculture state. Always has been, always will be.
But it's even more complex then that - Atlanta became a hub for business, and thus growth, due to a combination of complex factors - mainly revolving around it's unique status as a transportation center, but they also had the good fortune to sponsor the Olympics in the 90's and the foresight to attract a number of Fortune 500 businesses. But it's not all good - I lived and worked in Atlanta for a decade - traffic is crazy, the cost of living increased, and crime moved out the the suburbs. And now both Charlotte and Atlanta have experienced real estate busts.
Forget racism talk, it's not relevant to this discussion (why does it come up in every MS discussion), except for Atlanta's status as a hub for upwardly mobile people of color.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: North Jackson
1,964 posts, read 3,168,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
But it's not all good - I lived and worked in Atlanta for a decade - traffic is crazy, the cost of living increased, and crime moved out the the suburbs. And now both Charlotte and Atlanta have experienced real estate busts.
Yes there can be some negatives to growth, but the counter to this is that you don't encourage growth "just because..." You encourage growth to increase opportunity for everyone. You grow so that your kids don't have to leave the state to have a career in their chosen field. You grow so that even blue collar workers can earn a decent wage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Forget racism talk, it's not relevant to this discussion (why does it come up in every MS discussion), except for Atlanta's status as a hub for upwardly mobile people of color.
You can "forget racism talk" at your peril. Racism may very well be the reason that Madison and Brandon and Pearl and Flowood seem to have no interest in working together with Jackson and growing the metro area. Racism may very well be why those suburbs seem to actively compete against Jackson for commercial and retail business.

If it's not racism driving these behaviors, then it must be stupidity, because a strong Jackson AND strong suburbs will encourage growth, which will lead to the positive things I mentioned above. A dying Jackson and attractive suburbs will just lead to the area limping along like it's doing now. A problem is that many people would prefer the area limp along, as long as the people in Jackson don't benefit.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:32 PM
Status: "I'm an Unmherkun puppy-kicking Socialist" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,032 posts, read 2,115,440 times
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This goes FAR, FAR deeper than race - although there are implications for race relations (but to put what I just said in other words, race is just one aspect of a far deeper issue).

The real issue: Treating the unique, different, and downright weird with condescension at best and contempt at worse - for no other reason that they in some way fail to meet traditional and conventional definitions of "normal behavior" and even "respect-worthy person". This holds true even for people who are 6th generation Mississippians!!!Anything even moderately different or eccentric is considered "weird", "stupid", or even "evil". Given that progress necessarily involves question tradition and convention, and even common sense ( A highly disproportionate % of people on the forefront of such things are "weird" or "different" or controversial in some way), it's little wonder than almost anything between Atlanta and the big Texas cities is stagnating despite lower labor costs and warmer weather. I'll even go so far to say that disdain for difference is precisely why the area is politically / public policy stagnant. The state officials and bureaucrats are simply a reflection of the overall culture of the area. This lack of acceptance of nonconformist youth and young adults (and older adults too, for that matter) drives away a lot of talented, creative, and gifted people from the State - along with their education, job experience, etc. that create economic growth. In short, people are going to go where they can find appreciation from others - if they can't find it in Mississippi and the surrounding region, then they'll go some place else, and thereby continue the region's stagnation.

ADDED: There's a discussion about this very matter on a thread about Monroe, LA - 2 hours west of Jackson (closer to Jackson than much of the rest of Mississippi is). Furthermore, its culture is almost identical to Jackson's (saying that as someone who lived about halfway between the two cities for 20 odd years of my life). Race is not even close to an issue on this thread (though Monroe's problems are certainly no better than Jackson's), so it's not just race Mississippi has to deal with in regards to its position in the economic pecking order.
If there are places in Mississippi that truly think even moderately outside the box, it's Jackson's Fondren and Belhaven neighborhoods, plus Bay St Louis and the city of Biloxi. I'm sorry to say, but those are the only places in the state where the phrase "be yourself" is more than just a slogan.
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