Hattiesburg - Good place for liberal minded person? (Jackson: middle-class, renting)

[Tama]

The problem I see DebFlack is that you have your experience and then you extrapolate that to a generalization that you insist holds true while others' experiences are not truth but rather dishonest. You say, for example:

QUOTE"Others will insist that everyone there is 'smiley face' and that everything is peachykeen, and HAS been peachykeen----and THAT is truly 'dishonest' to say the least."

The following assessment, for example, does not indicate that it is "in your opinion" or "in your experience" but that it is true because you know it is true.


QUOTE"Hatred, and haters are still very much around---in great numbers----but many have just gone 'underground', or have pretended to gone 'mainstream'-----MOST, not all, have not experienced true and valid change in their 'hearts'........others pretend, still others fume that they are required to change by law--------RESENTMENT is rooted firmly, believe me."

If I read your post from the outside I would think there was a stealth operation of hatred and hostility and that those of us who are more positive are conspirators.

Fo those of you who care---DebFlack is correct in that people have what they have in their own hearts--but I say who cares or gives a darn. It is public policy, public fairness, and the beliefs and behavior of those in power and positions of trust that count. It is whether or not you can live a life of fulfillment, acceptance, and social equality that counts. You can do so.

Will you meet a jerk who has some personal viewpoints that might make you puke--sure--but ignore the jerk--when you interact in the public domain--at restaurants, ball games, medical facilities, retail establishments.. everyone is treated with respect. Many many people are kind and generous to all. Many many people have progressive views particularly among the educated.

Backward people exist and perhaps DebFlack has a penchant for finding them--but in Hattiesburg for example--the original point of this thread--most civic leaders are minorities including the mayor and police chief. I don't know what circles DebFlack moves in but I have experienced respectful interaction among all kinds of people on the golf course, in the class room, places of employment, exercise facilities, interest groups, cultural events and more--But then I guess this experience is "dishonest". Sigh----

(Concerning de facto school segregation-years ago the justice department forced bussing for the elementary schools. That social engineering project backfired and today's "de facto" segregation is the result. It is too complicated to get into here.)

[NWS]

Originally Posted by DebFlack

....My assessment based on what I've seen, heard, and experienced is that MOST, not all, have not experienced true and valid change in their 'hearts'........others pretend, still others fume that they are required to change by law--------RESENTMENT is rooted firmly, believe me.

Nope, I don't believe you. Sorry. You're living 40 years in the past.
Mississippi's race relations are no worse than any other state.
I grew up in NY and I think race relations there are far worse than MS.
The cup is half full and you refuse to see that. At least now you are speaking for yourself and not for the rest of the state.
Since no one else has posted agreeing with you, you "should take note" "avoidance is always telling".
Now you "may want to actually sidestep" this response but that is up to you.
I tried to give it to you in a "straightforward manner".

[DebFlack]

Originally Posted by NWS

Nope, I don't believe you. Sorry. You're living 40 years in the past.
Mississippi's race relations are no worse than any other state.
I grew up in NY and I think race relations there are far worse than MS.
The cup is half full and you refuse to see that. At least now you are speaking for yourself and not for the rest of the state.
Since no one else has posted agreeing with you, you "should take note" "avoidance is always telling".
Now you "may want to actually sidestep" this response but that is up to you.
I tried to give it to you in a "straightforward manner".

Mississippi's history is self-explanatory and self-evident.



It is folly to compare NY's history with that of MISSISSIPPI.

Essentially, it should be easy to comprehend that this writer speaks
for only one writer/person......duh

It is irrational to suggest that I, an independent observer is somehow
living '40 years in the past', when 40 years prior is 1969 , which is only 4 years after the Voting Rights Act, which was enacted exactly because of the racism that existed in states such as Mississippi, not New York State .
Even 4 long years after the ACT, Mississippi remained recalcitrant, even defiant, in the face of federal law....that too is inarguable.

Mississippi is the culprit of their own history, not this writer. Mississippi can't deny its own history....it certainly is not mine to 'own'----it's mine too talk about openly and frankly.

It is immaterial whether these online 'contributors' agree with this writer....historians have written about the ills that plague Mississippi sufficiently----- and the resulting effects so evident today.


"Public" behavior and attitude is one thing----private actions and attitudes tell you who you REALLY are.....public policy can be enforced through LAW------but what is missing in MS is a 'public transformation' of 'private attitudes' and 'beliefs'--------without a GENUINE transformation of a 'person', laws are many times meaningless in an otherwise egalitarian (legal) society.

MY assessment is that no such transformation has truly taken place, based on my experience and interaction locally.

Hearts have not changed.....not one bit...and THAT's how you measure the efficacy of a dynamic and progressive society....and neither of those terms firmly fit, or describe that society----whether the glass is viewed as "half full", or "half empty"........especially when the starting point seemed to be a disgusting 'negative 5'.

Laws have changed which have dismantled 'institutionalized racism', but I have not seen ANY sea change in personal and community ethos and behavior...............NADA....ZILCH......ZERO on balance. That is my experience and observation, which may not coincide with any other individual. I know what I hear, I know what I see, and for 2009, it's unfortunate to state that THIS community still lags behind many if not most parts of this great nation.....and I'm not likely to be apologetic to state my solid experience, because it is truly my own. Different people have different perceptions about the same 'reality'.

In my view, the area has a very long way to go------not my problem, and not of my making-------it's the making of the people on the ground, in that community----it's the making of their own flawed religious applied principles-----it's the making of their own community, screwed-up leadership--------it's the making of their own screwed up value system------it's the making of their own 'family values'.........NOT MINE

It is what it is.


BTW, I would be a fool to believe that posters here, about Mississippi would necessarily AGREE with anything I have set forth---------but keep in mind most Mississippians were silent on the issue of the vile nature of slavery, and were equally silent on the necessity of 'one man, one vote'. I would be indeed foolish to assume much different today, given the substance and nature of discourse to which I have been privy.....a fool indeed

[mattpresley]

Originally Posted by jimdc58

I'm researching various warm-climate communities, and am interested in whether Hattiesburg, being a college town, is a good place for a liberal minded person to live?

Heavens no. we dont want any liberals here. try Illinois.

[Tama]

DebFlack You have some venting to do so have at it. But what is important to people here is not history or individual transformation but whether they can live comfortably in the state today-whether they can enjoy a life as any other individual whether they are black white or green --whether they are right, left, or center and whether they are believers or not and the answer to that is yes they can and your history and indictment is irrelevant to that point --the point which people come here for and for which the original question was asked.

[NWS]

Originally Posted by DebFlack

...Hearts have not changed.....not one bit...and THAT's how you measure the efficacy of a dynamic and progressive society....and neither of those terms firmly fit, or describe that society----whether the glass is viewed as "half full", or "half empty"........especially when the starting point seemed to be a disgusting 'negative 5'.....

Well DebFlack once you start to profess to have the ability to read the hearts of millions of people I think that's about to to agree to disagree with you.
I've never seen what you are talking about in modern Mississippi.
I'm not sure how many others have seen your Mississippi. I've never met one.
I'm happy in MS. Try not to burst my bubble.

[DebFlack]

Originally Posted by NWS

'
I've never seen what you are talking about in modern Mississippi. Others may consider the term "modern Mississippi" somewhat an oxymoron....modernity has not been a key 'thought component' in oftentimes what I actually HEAR
I'm not sure how many others have seen your Mississippi. I've never met one. Good for you, but that means you just haven't experienced it yet, or you're a WHITE, relatively new (<20 years) transplant...if you are white, which more than likely you ARE, you are simply within the ranks of many age old Mississippians who previously thought that there was nothing truly wrong with Mississippi society in the days of slavery, Jim Crow, and even after the 1970s and today. If you are in fact WHITE, how many close Black Mississippian close friends have YOU developed...if you have none (not 'work buddies, they don't COUNT), then I suggest you spend some time speaking with the millions of black residents all around you...I assure you that you might get an earfull of important information that may not coincide with your rather flawed vision of your own social milieu.
I'm happy in MS. Try not to burst my bubble. Everyone's experience is individual, lots of people are "happy" in Mississippi and in Hattiesburg...lots of people were "happy" with how things were as well.....quite content in fact, and absolutely blind to the need for justice 'for all', and looked upon any intruder on their wonderfully offensive lifestyle and social order as an "outside aggitator" seeking to 'stir up their nehgrahs'.....that is a historical fact in how the status quo looked upon 'forced, lawful change' in dealing with voting rights for example.........if you think that thought or ideology is now in the past, then you don't know Mississippi, and what is truly said behind closed doors, and in the halls of power and in the body politic.............my opinion is that many, not all of these people remain disingenuous to say the least....and that's just one OPINION based on solid experience.......and you don't have to like, endorse, or enjoy another's experience

[NWS]

Originally Posted by DebFlack

I've never seen what you are talking about in modern Mississippi. Others may consider the term "modern Mississippi" somewhat an oxymoron....modernity has not been a key 'thought component' in oftentimes what I actually HEAR
I'm not sure how many others have seen your Mississippi. I've never met one. Good for you, but that means you just haven't experienced it yet, or you're a WHITE, relatively new (<20 years) transplant...if you are white, which more than likely you ARE...

Nope Deb. I'm not white. I've discussed race often on this forum when it comes up. I was raised in NYC and thought MS was actually like what you described.
I had never been here before. I'm 44 and visited here for the first time about 3 years ago and loved it so much I bought a house.
I consider myself to be a very aware person. I know what it's like to be treated in a certain way and realize it was due to my color.
It just hasn't happened here...yet.
I know when I'm faced with someone who is uncomfortable with my color.
They give you the look that transcends words. I've actually met whites and Blacks here that have discussed race relations here in MS.
None feel the way you do.
Maybe I have been lucky. The block I live on is 90% white and not one of my neighbors has ever looked at me weird (I can't read hearts like you though)
or given me any idea they were uncomfortable with me being here.
So far no Klan activity or burned crosses ect to report.

Again I'm not disputing your experiences. You sound like an interesting person. You have an interesting writing style.
I'm just saying in my few short years around central MS as a Black male I haven't experienced it. If it was as you say it is I would be out of here in a heartbeat.
I would never have moved here if it were. I've been following this forum for a few years also and I've yet to hear stories like you are telling.
There are some who may feel trapped here since finacially they can't leave. That is not the case with myself and many others who post here.
If YOUR MS was the MS they knew most of us would be out of here.

[DebFlack]

Originally Posted by NWS

I've never seen what you are talking about in modern Mississippi. Others may consider the term "modern Mississippi" somewhat an oxymoron....modernity has not been a key 'thought component' in oftentimes what I actually HEAR
I'm not sure how many others have seen your Mississippi. I've never met one. Good for you, but that means you just haven't experienced it yet, or you're a WHITE, relatively new (<20 years) transplant...if you are white, which more than likely you ARE...

Nope Deb. I'm not white. I've discussed race often on this forum when it comes up. I was raised in NYC and thought MS was actually like what you described.
I had never been here before. I'm 44 and visited here for the first time about 3 years ago and loved it so much I bought a house.
I consider myself to be a very aware person. I know what it's like to be treated in a certain way and realize it was due to my color.
It just hasn't happened here...yet.
I know when I'm faced with someone who is uncomfortable with my color.
They give you the look that transcends words. I've actually met whites and Blacks here that have discussed race relations here in MS.
None feel the way you do.
Maybe I have been lucky. The block I live on is 90% white and not one of my neighbors has ever looked at me weird (I can't read hearts like you though)
or given me any idea they were uncomfortable with me being here.
So far no Klan activity or burned crosses ect to report.

Again I'm not disputing your experiences. You sound like an interesting person. You have an interesting writing style.
I'm just saying in my few short years around central MS as a Black male I haven't experienced it. If it was as you say it is I would be out of here in a heartbeat.
I would never have moved here if it were. I've been following this forum for a few years also and I've yet to hear stories like you are telling.
There are some who may feel trapped here since finacially they can't leave. That is not the case with myself and many others who post here.
If YOUR MS was the MS they knew most of us would be out of here.

AS I have stated, everyone's experience is quite different

Additionally, know this- Mississippi 'racism' , now, at PRESENT, is not likely to be 'confrontational' or 'in your black face' as it apparently was prior to your 'discovering Mississippi' only 3 years ago.

The local color has not changed- the boldness and methodologies have changed, something that you, coming from NYC and 44 years of age, are quite unfamiliar.

I say that from what I HEAR as a non-black person in certain professional and social milieu, where many whites feel emboldened given the lack of personal proximity to a BLACK PERSON------- that's how you truly discover what the masses think, and they are NOT likely to engage YOU in a way to mentally or psychologically 'disrobe' in front of you-----that would be too dangerous for them-----and would put them at risk in a way heretofore was OPENLY accepted, tolerated and encouraged.


I trust YOUR exxperience continues to be as 'positive' as you seem to suggest.

No one can 'read hearts' or minds-----but I will share with you that MY EARS, and reasoning capability remain in tact-----but the salient point is that YOU might "hear" things that don't match the scope of what I LISTEN to given important variations of social settings and business settings. Some times I remain quite shocked in 2009.

Just because you don't "hear" things in your own world, does not mean they don't exist, even all around you------and what I'm sharing is that it very very much exists around you, but remains 'sneaky', 'cloaked', 'calculative', yet highly operational. That's not wishful thinking- it's based on first hand knowledge, not hearsay my dear fellow.

The die was cast well before you moved to the Great State of Mississippi.
Has it changed ?? yes, cosmetically-----

I know better, but you need not believe me- everyone lives in their own reality.

[jimdc58]

Originally Posted by D-Towner

Liberalism is a disease, unfortunately with humidity and mosquitoes in Mississippi, it could spread quickly.

Yes...that kind of post really contributes a lot.