U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Montana > Missoula
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-03-2011, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
11,854 posts, read 15,492,091 times
Reputation: 12142

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
I think this article forgets that prior to generalized public schools, if you wanted an education your only real choice was the nearest monastery or nunnery. Public education as we know it didn't exist before about 1850. Neither did general literacy. It used to be a big deal for these remote farm and ranch areas (like Montana) to acquire and fund a teacher, who might have to use someone's front room for a schoolhouse, there being no other.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-03-2011, 11:05 AM
 
9,341 posts, read 25,472,418 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
I think this article forgets that prior to generalized public schools, if you wanted an education your only real choice was the nearest monastery or nunnery.
You forget home schooling and private tutoring.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
11,854 posts, read 15,492,091 times
Reputation: 12142
Home schooling only works if there is proficient knowledge in the home to provide it, and private tutoring was a luxury most couldn't afford.

I would have loved to have gone to DeMatha or some other prep school, but my folks couldn't swing it. In retrospect I'm glad I went to public H.S. 'cause that's where I met my wife

We had great opportunities at our H.S. My wife and I met in Russian language class, we had AP History together.. It was a good, honest education..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2011, 01:49 PM
 
213 posts, read 597,954 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
I think it's a good thing that a student body be aware of and associate with all facets of society where possible, and I also think it's important for special needs kids to learn to work with others as well.

.
Thank you.

I remember back to my own school days. The "special ed" kids were not isolated only to a specific classroom, but to a specific school. There were 3 grade schools in my district, and only 1 took kids with special needs, so those kids went to that school regardless of where they lived.

That meant that the kids in the other schools (like myself) grew up never having been exposed to kids with disabilities. Most of us were very, very uncomfortable around these kids. It wasn't until high school that we ever got to interact with these kids and realize that they were just human beings who wanted to be accepted just like the rest of us.

I believe this model was detrimental to all kids in my school district - those with special needs and those without. I do see the point others have made about not holding the whole class back for the slower kids to catch up, but there are so many other ways to accomplish this without just isolating the kids with special needs - and it doesn't always have to require a para in every classroom at all times. Yes, it requires a little more funding, but IMO Montana can afford to put quite a bit more into its schools than it already does, and the benefit to society is worth the cost.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2011, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Back in the Southland
1,054 posts, read 1,549,129 times
Reputation: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
The amount of money spent on schools has no bearing on the quality of education. A good teacher only needs chalk, a blackboard, and fannies in the seats, with the power to discipline those fannies that don't want to stay seated and pay attention. California's schools spend FIVE TIMES as much money per student as Montana schools, yet the state high school dropout rate is 40% and rising, and in Los Angeles it's 60% and rising. Last I checked, the HS dropout rate in Montana was around 10-15%. And I assure you, the education level of the graduates is vastly better in Montana, even with far less money spent per student.
Don't usually get defensive of CA because of it's economic crappyness but this I must. The states of CA and MT educationally cannot be compared. There are too many factors affecting CA schools that aren't as large in MT. If you want to compare MT public schools pick a state with similar circumstances and factors
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2011, 08:19 PM
 
Location: North Dakota
7,721 posts, read 9,015,236 times
Reputation: 11078
The OP said this well!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2011, 10:48 PM
 
17 posts, read 113,206 times
Reputation: 77
I appreciate all the posts and replies related to education. This hits close to home as we personally have children that experience the disrupted classes daily.

Back the topics of the original post: I would like to hear more thoughts regarding the resistance to industry (particularly manufacturing) in Missoula. The mayor committed 2 months ago to creating 2500 jobs over the next year. Any progress yet? What exactly is Best Place and Best Fit companies?

The possibility of creating 2500 high tech, or medical, or other perceived Best Fit jobs without industry is not realistic. Smurfit has been bought but if anyone is dreaming that the mill will start back up and 400 people will start back to work, they will be sadly disappointed.

What can we do for industry in Missoula?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: western montana
214 posts, read 530,077 times
Reputation: 86
Well, the best thing to do about manufacturing in Missoula, Last Stop, is not have it. I don't mean to be smug about it, but I hated it. You seem like a well meaning lady, but I wouldn't wish factory work on any generation after having done it. Unless you have done it, but then I'd wonder why you would wish it on others. Factory work is the most demeaning work anyone can do. If your family's working in the services sector, I would stay in that. It's a definate improvement on the past. Being your own boss is the only way to go. I know several people disagree with me on this forum 'bout this but I'll stick with my guns about it. Working in a union is no big deal and the same with the work you do.

The freedom and potential you can earn in a services career is nowhere close. Plus, get your own benefits and savings plan. Companies do a poor job today of 'caring' for your retirement. You can do much better then 'them'. The reason why companies have 'matching' funds for what you put in a 401k is they have such poor choices.

I think politicians in Missoula say these things because they want to promise the store. People are hurting there, no doubt about it. They may have some success, and some people just feel better working for a company. How long will the new owners out at the old Smurfit guarantee your job? The security 'thing' is old fashioned. I don't think it exists like it use to.

Last edited by Jbechtel; 05-07-2011 at 12:07 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2011, 01:49 PM
 
Location: C-U metro
1,366 posts, read 2,730,522 times
Reputation: 1160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbechtel View Post
Well, the best thing to do about manufacturing in Missoula, Last Stop, is not have it. I don't mean to be smug about it, but I hated it. You seem like a well meaning lady, but I wouldn't wish factory work on any generation after having done it. Unless you have done it, but then I'd wonder why you would wish it on others. Factory work is the most demeaning work anyone can do. If your family's working in the services sector, I would stay in that. It's a definate improvement on the past. Being your own boss is the only way to go. I know several people disagree with me on this forum 'bout this but I'll stick with my guns about it. Working in a union is no big deal and the same with the work you do.

The freedom and potential you can earn in a services career is nowhere close. Plus, get your own benefits and savings plan. Companies do a poor job today of 'caring' for your retirement. You can do much better then 'them'. The reason why companies have 'matching' funds for what you put in a 401k is they have such poor choices.
So your solution is to have a society full of educators, protesters, bankers and sales people who all move stuff from China. Your assumption that all manufacturing involves unions is very false. There is a TON of manufacturing jobs (I'd guess at least 50% of all manufacturing but no basis) that has no union. Most of these jobs are in the South, not the rust belt. I believe the US needs to grow its manufacturing muscle but we are very short staffed. Qualified pipefitters, welders, machinists and heavy mechanics as well as engineers and scientists are in short supply. Most college graduates are in liberal arts and business which are in oversupply.

There is a lot wrong with the US. We have glorified bankers and lawyers to the detriment of people who actually produce a service or a tangible good. We have allowed baby boomers to filch saving for retirement but won't dare take a cut in payments or supplements to Medicare. Western Montana has become a park for out of staters who don't want much more than a Trader Joes on the corner and a folksy "quant" hardware store to supply Juan so he can fix their $2 million dollar McMansion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2011, 09:12 PM
 
17 posts, read 113,206 times
Reputation: 77
Very well said flyingcat2K. Jbetchtel: I have been in manufacturing for 25 yrs. Built plants, created jobs, ran union and non union plants, and frankly fired most that it did not work out for such as yourself - from the sounds of your opinion it's not for you. Fair enough but it's a honorable job to go to work and make things every day and a huge hole in the Missoula economy and job force. I have never felt demeaned and unless you have developed products / raised the money to manufacturer / built factories and hired hundreds of people- you cannot speak about the rewards it brings to many families and communities across our great nation.

I agree that security and working for a company (manufacturing or not) for 25-35 or more years is a thing of the past. Having more than one skill set or career is the norm these days.

One day in the near future the forerunner of the China explosion (Wally World) will feel the impact. When average blue collar folks do not have jobs it won't matter that shampoo and Great Value foods cost only $1 because they won't have the $1 because none of the products are being made in their town allowing them to have jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Montana > Missoula
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top