My map of Midwest/South in Missouri! (Kansas City, St. Louis: price, baptist)

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by R.A.P

I agree with your map because Im in the lower section of Franklin county, and I can tell you that no one I know considers themselves to be midwestern.

The people I've talked to either give me one opinion, the other, or are undecided, that's why I put the line there.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

I would not consider El paso southern lol.

Also number of Confederate troops doesn't mean all that much today. just means it had higher population.

Look at Florida. It only supplied about 15,000 troops to the Confederacy, while MO was 40-50k. So you're saying MO is more southern because they supplied more troops? ROFL.

Texas had more people hence more troops.

Christ...El Paso is such a tiny portion of the state....Amarillo, Texas is certainly part of the south. Ever see No Country For Old Men? The story they tell is true. You still hear plenty of typical Texas accents there. Culturally it's influenced by Mexico, the Desert Southwest, and the south. They depict as pretty southern there with Mexican influences. El Paso is definitely not culturally in the same boat as Phoenix. If you're going to minimize Texas' role in the Civil War and emphasize Missouri's more, that is ignorance on a level i can't reason with. Texas was among the first states to secede from the union. Texas in most parts of the state can be classified as Southern. Austin, Dallas, Amarillo, Houston, all are southern, and to a degree San Antonio although that's got heavy Mexican influence. Have you ever heard Ron White talk? He's from the Texas panhandle, but to call that accent and that culture anything other than southern is laughable. Population my foot...that shows just how many Texans believed in the Confederate cause. I have been to the whole state of Texas, and you'd be laughed out of there for not calling it the South. It is a Southern state with Southwestern and Mexican influences. in the extreme western parts and the parts closer to Mexico.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Well, as I'm going to say, poverty statistics don't tell you what the culture is, what the dialect is, what the way of life is, etc. All they tell you are how rich or poor the county is, which is influenced by too many different factors even to list here.

That is true, but the case of Washington county has to be underlying social problems inherent with a severe lack of jobs relative to surrounding counties. A place really has to have significant issues in order to have only 70% of the population with a high school diploma.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

That is true, but the case of Washington county has to be underlying social problems inherent with a severe lack of jobs relative to surrounding counties. A place really has to have significant issues in order to have only 70% of the population with a high school diploma.

I would doubt most of these "social problems" could be tied exclusively to a single region of the country. In any case, I know several people from Washington County...they're not southerners, and have lived there their whole lives. Hicks? Rednecks? Yeah you could call them that.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

I would doubt most of these "social problems" could be tied exclusively to a single region of the country. In any case, I know several people from Washington County...they're not southerners, and have lived there their whole lives. Hicks? Rednecks? Yeah you could call them that.

-kshe says hoosier under her breath-

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

-kshe says hoosier under her breath-

Thanks for reminding me to speak like a St. Louisan

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Thanks for reminding me to speak like a St. Louisan

Not a problem, sometimes even us natives need a reminder!

[MOBaptist]

I think it bleeds north. While many people from Big City (KC) Identify with the midwest, I live just outside KC and identify with the south. The upper south though. I know culture cant be defined by state lines. But I had to put Missouri as a whole in a region, I would have to go with south. There is alot of corn and soybeans though. But thats about it. My relatives in SE Kansas are southern too, because they live 1 mile from oklahoma.

[MOBaptist]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

How so?

How is Kansas City's exurbia any more rural than that of STL?

Except for the massive influx of southerners, including blacks, during the height of migration for industrial employment, which STL also experienced, I don't see how Kansas City is any more southern than STL. In fact, because of the Mississippi River, STL may be more connected to points south. Kansas City doesn't even have an interstate connecting us with "Dixie". Also, just because KC is a century younger doesn't mean it's more southern. Denver and Omaha are younger as well, but certainly not more southern.

I'd argue that Kansas City was like a mini-NYC back in the day, with the organized crime, diversity of ethnic immigrants, etc. We have a diverse population, including a sizeable Jewish population, now and historically, with a lot of influence/wealth. I think that's something southern cities typically lack.

I think your map would be more accurate if you had labeled everything south of the red line "transition/upland south" and everything north of it "midwest".

No, No, No.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by MOBaptist

I think it bleeds north. While many people from Big City (KC) Identify with the midwest, I live just outside KC and identify with the south. The upper south though. I know culture cant be defined by state lines. But I had to put Missouri as a whole in a region, I would have to go with south. There is alot of corn and soybeans though. But thats about it. My relatives in SE Kansas are southern too, because they live 1 mile from oklahoma.

My dad is from SW Missouri, and doesn't identify as southern...nor does anyone he grew up with there. I know many people living just outside KC that identify with the Midwest, so obviously you just choose to make an identification. There is nothing "upper south" about KC or any of the surrounding area by a modern standpoint. You give a lot of conflicting details, none supporting your standpoint.