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Old 10-15-2011, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,443 posts, read 17,985,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
I stand by my map....maybe move the yellow line farther south out of St. Francois County.
The map is good, the St Francois thing is the only questionable part.

 
Old 10-16-2011, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
10,852 posts, read 15,182,199 times
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I lived in Spfld and Jasper County. The church has too much say in city affairs in Spfld, and it is very southern imho. I think Jasper County may be a mixed bag because of the number of very small communities. .

I had a neighbor in Carthage who was definately southern and talked about the KKK as if it was kin. It was educational for sure. However, the first * on land * shot fired in the Civil War was in Carthage. The Kendrick house outside of town was headquarters for both the North and the South. I had Native American Indian neigbors; one was from KS and the other from AZ. Neither sounded nor acted southern; they kept an Indian home and Indian rituals. Today there is a large Hispanic population that works in the chicken plant there. .

I don't see KC as southern at all. I spent time there and I haver friends who were raised there. I believe it is solidly Midwesernt. The newspaper is not southern and it is extremely well edited.

I didn't see it in Joplin. Despite the number of Christian churches there was also a Jewish Synagog, a Catholic church, a few independent churches, a university and three colleges (before the EF-5 tornado) that had many international students. I think the dense student population probably altered any southern-ness, if it ever existed.

Noel, MO is southern and on the AR border nearly 50-miles South of Joplin. I think the change is more noticable south of 1-44.

Tulsa for its size and offerings is very southern, but it, and NE OK, is also considered Midwestern because of its heritage. The Peoria tribe that settled in OK, for instance, came out of central Illinois.

Just my two cents. I think MO is a very good mix of North, South, East and West. I think you find North around the big ciites like St/ Louis and Kansas City, KS, but not so much 50-miles West of St. Louis or 50- miles South of KC, MO. JC is a bit stiff-necked. but Columbia has a large Muslim population. The mosques seem to be growing more in the South than in the North. .

Last edited by linicx; 10-16-2011 at 03:54 AM..
 
Old 10-16-2011, 09:20 AM
 
543 posts, read 425,865 times
Reputation: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
I lived in Spfld and Jasper County. The church has too much say in city affairs in Spfld, and it is very southern imho. I think .
Springfield is in the biblebelt so not shocking the church has a lot of say.
 
Old 10-16-2011, 05:43 PM
 
29,990 posts, read 20,952,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
If you look at this map of America's ancestral origins, I think the part of Missouri self-identifying as "American" is going to be the most southern part of the state.

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe those identifying as "American" are mostly Irish, Scotch-Irish, Scottish, and perhaps English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.svg


In your first post you completely ignore the history of Missouri's "Little Dixie".

Perhaps you haven't studied how Missouri was settled? If you don't think Missouri has families who settled early and were among the Scotch and Scotch-Irish along the Missouri River all the way to Kansas City you are mistaken.

As to the OP, the middle line is too far South as it crosses central Missouri, IMO. YMMV.

I do have to wonder why the seeming obsession of trying to classify the cultural heritage with such a wide brush the influences in Missouri by sectioning it off. It is not as simple as you try to make it.

Last edited by ShadowCaver; 10-16-2011 at 06:35 PM..
 
Old 10-16-2011, 06:03 PM
 
2,750 posts, read 5,793,400 times
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I just wanted to thank everyone for this thread. It has been very interesting to me, an outsider, with no knowledge of the area...but I was intrigued after the Joplin tornado put a spotlight on the area and I did hear a unique mix and blendng of accents, although that could also be attributed to people comming in from out of the area. Thanks again!
 
Old 10-16-2011, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Tennessee Delta
1,709 posts, read 1,386,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
The map is good, the St Francois thing is the only questionable part.
Hard to believe that the culture changes that fast along the Mississippi River but it does indeed. The fact that the yellow and red lines aren't even two counties apart is very interesting but in my opinion very accurate.
 
Old 10-16-2011, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 2,240,465 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post


In your first post you completely ignore the history of Missouri's "Little Dixie".

Perhaps you haven't studied how Missouri was settled? If you don't think Missouri has families who settled early and were among the Scotch and Scotch-Irish along the Missouri River all the way to Kansas City you are mistaken.

As to the OP, the middle line is too far South as it crosses central Missouri, IMO. YMMV.

I do have to wonder why the seeming obsession of trying to classify the cultural heritage with such a wide brush the influences in Missouri by sectioning it off. It is not as simple as you try to make it.
Too far south? Wow....I think it's way too far north. The history of Little Dixie is just that...history. Has no bearings on what the state is or is not today. We're talking about overall ancestry that settled here...German far outnumbers "American" in most of the state. If I'm supposed to believe that 40 years of mixed history for that region trumps the rest of that area's history as a part of the U.S., I guess we need to say that short periods of time matter more than long ones. Little Dixie is basically dead except for the history books. I know these areas of the state better than any other part...my ancestry comes from Mexico, Missouri and Joplin, Missouri.
 
Old 10-16-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 2,240,465 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
I lived in Spfld and Jasper County. The church has too much say in city affairs in Spfld, and it is very southern imho. I think Jasper County may be a mixed bag because of the number of very small communities. .

I had a neighbor in Carthage who was definately southern and talked about the KKK as if it was kin. It was educational for sure. However, the first * on land * shot fired in the Civil War was in Carthage. The Kendrick house outside of town was headquarters for both the North and the South. I had Native American Indian neigbors; one was from KS and the other from AZ. Neither sounded nor acted southern; they kept an Indian home and Indian rituals. Today there is a large Hispanic population that works in the chicken plant there. .

I don't see KC as southern at all. I spent time there and I haver friends who were raised there. I believe it is solidly Midwesernt. The newspaper is not southern and it is extremely well edited.

I didn't see it in Joplin. Despite the number of Christian churches there was also a Jewish Synagog, a Catholic church, a few independent churches, a university and three colleges (before the EF-5 tornado) that had many international students. I think the dense student population probably altered any southern-ness, if it ever existed.

Noel, MO is southern and on the AR border nearly 50-miles South of Joplin. I think the change is more noticable south of 1-44.

Tulsa for its size and offerings is very southern, but it, and NE OK, is also considered Midwestern because of its heritage. The Peoria tribe that settled in OK, for instance, came out of central Illinois.

Just my two cents. I think MO is a very good mix of North, South, East and West. I think you find North around the big ciites like St/ Louis and Kansas City, KS, but not so much 50-miles West of St. Louis or 50- miles South of KC, MO. JC is a bit stiff-necked. but Columbia has a large Muslim population. The mosques seem to be growing more in the South than in the North. .
There is nothing western about Missouri. Central Missouri has more of the typical rural culture you'd find in the Lower Midwest/Midwest-South transition zone. Only a small part of the state can be classified as truly Southern in every sense of the word. The rest of the state is either Midwestern or a transition between Midwest-South...the transition zone occupies the upper half of the southern part of the state. Speech patterns, climate, and culture all dictate these lines. So what if it's not 100% accurate...it's not too far off.

Last edited by stlouisan; 10-16-2011 at 07:51 PM..
 
Old 10-16-2011, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 2,240,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
I said in my prior post that I classify Eldon and Miller County as a transition zone with upland South being more predominant in terms of the overall built environment, culture, topography, and accents. Miller County is nothing like Cole County and is classified as rural by the Census Bureau. Look at the educational differential as well. Miller county very closely mirrors the upland South transitional counties along and to the south of it.
I don't agree with that though. I don't think it is the more dominant culture. I think it is too split to really say definitively. Yes, it mirrors those other counties, but those counties can only be called upland South topographically...culturally and in terms of accents it is still too difficult to classify. The best culture I could equivocally link it with would be the culture of Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana...strong southern influences, but not to the point where I'd say these counties can be called more Southern or Midwestern. It's too hard really to say which are which. Rural does not = Southern. the geographical "upland South" extends well into Pennsylvania.
 
Old 10-16-2011, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Tennessee Delta
1,709 posts, read 1,386,954 times
Reputation: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I don't agree with that though. I don't think it is the more dominant culture. I think it is too split to really say definitively. Yes, it mirrors those other counties, but those counties can only be called upland South topographically...culturally and in terms of accents it is still too difficult to classify. The best culture I could equivocally link it with would be the culture of Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana...strong southern influences, but not to the point where I'd say these counties can be called more Southern or Midwestern. It's too hard really to say which are which. Rural does not = Southern. the geographical "upland South" extends well into Pennsylvania.
I'm in agreement here. There are only two counties IMHO in Illinois that could be considered more southern than midwestern, and they are Alexander and Pulaski.
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