My map of Midwest/South in Missouri! (Kansas City, St. Louis: living, rich)

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

lol. You honestly attribute those aspects to culture? Maybe it's the topography? Not the culture? You need to be specific when you say Upland South...either you mean topographically, or culturally, in which case you need to call it Upper South. Topographically, to a degree Washington County, Missouri is Southern...parts of it, especially near the Missouri River, are very fertile farmland. Culturally, it is not the Upper South. The Upper South (cultural Upland South) truly begins about at or below Rolla, then transitions to mid-South (boot-heel style) eventually once you get far enough south into Arkansas. I'm going to bed. This is really all a big game. We obviously will not see eye-to-eye, so it's ridiculous for us to continue this game.

I actually am not too familiar with Washington County, MO so I will defer to those that are more familiar with it. I would say it is culturally more upland southern with some Midwest mixed in. What I don't understand is how the educational attainment could be as bad as it is, or if it has lots of underlying social problems. Census bureau statistics indicate 70% of the population over 18 with a high school diploma and 6% of the population with a four year degree. Those figures are the lowest of any county in the state outside of the Missouri bootheel.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Most people would be wrong then. Texas as a whole state is southern. It contributed the most troops for the Confederacy of any state in the Civil War. Dallas' identity is with Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Houston, Memphis, and New Orleans. Has nothing in common with Denver, Albuquerque, or Phoenix. It may be southwestern in that it borders Mexico, but many will tell you that Texas is really the "Western South", not the Southwest. I'm out of gas...you obviously won't take no for an answer. Good luck with your mission, whatever it is, and good riddance.

I would not consider El paso southern lol.

Also number of Confederate troops doesn't mean all that much today. just means it had higher population.

Look at Florida. It only supplied about 15,000 troops to the Confederacy, while MO was 40-50k. So you're saying MO is more southern because they supplied more troops? ROFL.

Texas had more people hence more troops.

[GunnerTHB]

People from the bootheel are far from hard to understand imho. Maybe it's cause I'm from a close proximity to it but I've never had a hard time understanding people from down there. With that being said, Dunklin & Pemiscot Counties are similar to Fulton County, KY, Northwest TN, and NE Arkansas. New Madrid & Mississippi Counties "Upland southern" HA! What's upland about a place that has absolutely no hills? It used to be a huge bayou, it's far from "Upland". There is no real upland transition along the Missouri side of the Mississippi River. It goes from the midwestern culture of the northern and central Mississippi hills region to about a 20 mile transition to delta southern that ends when you drop off into the delta at Benton. You can go all the way to Louisiana and never climb up a hill (Except for interstate on ramps and things of that nature.)

As for Rolla, in my time that I've spent here I don't really see it. The Ozark dialect is somewhat present. However I can't find much in the way of southern cookin in the restaurants here. Also, Rolla has a very strong connection to St. Louis as well. I'd stop short of calling Rolla southern. It seems to have a decent amount of southern influence however, probably a pretty nice mix of the two. It has a strange vibe too maybe because the largest majority group is Asians.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

I believe those people are generally more referred to as "Florida crackers." Books such as "The Yearling" do a great job of painting the dialect of backwoods Florida.

The Forest people are a subset, they really dont have much in common with Crackers, I'm married to a Cracker.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by GunnerTHB

People from the bootheel are far from hard to understand imho. Maybe it's cause I'm from a close proximity to it but I've never had a hard time understanding people from down there. With that being said, Dunklin & Pemiscot Counties are similar to Fulton County, KY, Northwest TN, and NE Arkansas. New Madrid & Mississippi Counties "Upland southern" HA! What's upland about a place that has absolutely no hills? It used to be a huge bayou, it's far from "Upland". There is no real upland transition along the Missouri side of the Mississippi River. It goes from the midwestern culture of the northern and central Mississippi hills region to about a 20 mile transition to delta southern that ends when you drop off into the delta at Benton. You can go all the way to Louisiana and never climb up a hill (Except for interstate on ramps and things of that nature.)

As for Rolla, in my time that I've spent here I don't really see it. The Ozark dialect is somewhat present. However I can't find much in the way of southern cookin in the restaurants here. Also, Rolla has a very strong connection to St. Louis as well. I'd stop short of calling Rolla southern. It seems to have a decent amount of southern influence however, probably a pretty nice mix of the two. It has a strange vibe too maybe because the largest majority group is Asians.

How true, its not likew the folks of the Bootheel are speaking Geechee.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by GunnerTHB

People from the bootheel are far from hard to understand imho. Maybe it's cause I'm from a close proximity to it but I've never had a hard time understanding people from down there. With that being said, Dunklin & Pemiscot Counties are similar to Fulton County, KY, Northwest TN, and NE Arkansas. New Madrid & Mississippi Counties "Upland southern" HA! What's upland about a place that has absolutely no hills? It used to be a huge bayou, it's far from "Upland". There is no real upland transition along the Missouri side of the Mississippi River. It goes from the midwestern culture of the northern and central Mississippi hills region to about a 20 mile transition to delta southern that ends when you drop off into the delta at Benton. You can go all the way to Louisiana and never climb up a hill (Except for interstate on ramps and things of that nature.)

As for Rolla, in my time that I've spent here I don't really see it. The Ozark dialect is somewhat present. However I can't find much in the way of southern cookin in the restaurants here. Also, Rolla has a very strong connection to St. Louis as well. I'd stop short of calling Rolla southern. It seems to have a decent amount of southern influence however, probably a pretty nice mix of the two. It has a strange vibe too maybe because the largest majority group is Asians.

Yea that's funny calling Mississippi and New Madrid counties Upland South lol. Even culturally they're much more southern than Indiana, Kentucky, southern IL.

I agree about the Stl and rolla thing. If it wasn't for Stl Rolla would be southern IMO.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Yea that's funny calling Mississippi and New Madrid counties Upland South lol. Even culturally they're much more southern than Indiana, Kentucky, southern IL.

I agree about the Stl and rolla thing. If it wasn't for Stl Rolla would be southern IMO.

You dont seem to know the difference between the geographical term, "upland south" and the cultural term, "mid south".
Please.
Learn the difference.

[R.A.P]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

This is my cultural map of Missouri that I finally drew. Forgive the bad handwriting...this was done with a touchpad and I don't have an operational mouse currently. Double click on it for a MUCH bigger view.

I agree with your map because Im in the lower section of Franklin county, and I can tell you that no one I know considers themselves to be midwestern.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by R.A.P

I agree with your map because Im in the lower section of Franklin county, and I can tell you that no one I know considers themselves to be midwestern.

Interesting because they're next to St. Louis county, but Franklin is one of the largest counties in Missouri so I can see the people being pretty diverse depending what area you're in.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

I actually am not too familiar with Washington County, MO so I will defer to those that are more familiar with it. I would say it is culturally more upland southern with some Midwest mixed in. What I don't understand is how the educational attainment could be as bad as it is, or if it has lots of underlying social problems. Census bureau statistics indicate 70% of the population over 18 with a high school diploma and 6% of the population with a four year degree. Those figures are the lowest of any county in the state outside of the Missouri bootheel.

Well, as I'm going to say, poverty statistics don't tell you what the culture is, what the dialect is, what the way of life is, etc. All they tell you are how rich or poor the county is, which is influenced by too many different factors even to list here.