My map of Midwest/South in Missouri! (Kansas City, St. Louis: school, plantations)

[onegoalstl]

I decided to make a more detailed map. There was a similar map posted on here awhile ago someone made. Mine is similar except I tried to be more detailed. I have dixie starting thru Cape Giradeau, and transition zone south of the Missouri river. I cut out the Ste Gen, region as well as Perry county and Franklin and include them with Stl, Midwestern.

North of teh MO river is Midwestern. I added small pockets of southernish cause some of the small towns north of the river seem to retain a little bit of their past characteristics like Kingdom of Callaway.

[MOKAN]

Interesting map. Since you're so into this, can you provide detailed descriptions as to the differences of each of the areas you have marked? Such as, what makes Jasper County more southern than, say, Cass County? What virtues does Springfield have that make it more southern than, say, Independence, St. Joseph or Kansas City?

[Smtchll]

KC is Upland South? Yeah right...

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by Smtchll

KC is Upland South? Yeah right...

Thats stretching it, but if you compare Stl to KC they are two entierly different cultures. KC especially the suburbs get rural and most conservative and bible belt.

KC also is not as old of a city as stl. Also KC was southernish back in the day and was mostly plantations before the civil war. There is some southerness kind of areas once you get out of the city unlike here in St. Louis.

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Thats stretching it, but if you compare Stl to KC they are two entierly different cultures. KC especially the suburbs get rural and most conservative and bible belt.

KC also is not as old of a city as stl. Also KC was southernish back in the day and was mostly plantations before the civil war. There is some southerness kind of areas once you get out of the city unlike here in St. Louis.

How so?

How is Kansas City's exurbia any more rural than that of STL?

Except for the massive influx of southerners, including blacks, during the height of migration for industrial employment, which STL also experienced, I don't see how Kansas City is any more southern than STL. In fact, because of the Mississippi River, STL may be more connected to points south. Kansas City doesn't even have an interstate connecting us with "Dixie". Also, just because KC is a century younger doesn't mean it's more southern. Denver and Omaha are younger as well, but certainly not more southern.

I'd argue that Kansas City was like a mini-NYC back in the day, with the organized crime, diversity of ethnic immigrants, etc. We have a diverse population, including a sizeable Jewish population, now and historically, with a lot of influence/wealth. I think that's something southern cities typically lack.

I think your map would be more accurate if you had labeled everything south of the red line "transition/upland south" and everything north of it "midwest".

[Smtchll]

Originally Posted by onegoalstl

Thats stretching it, but if you compare Stl to KC they are two entierly different cultures. KC especially the suburbs get rural and most conservative and bible belt.

KC also is not as old of a city as stl. Also KC was southernish back in the day and was mostly plantations before the civil war. There is some southerness kind of areas once you get out of the city unlike here in St. Louis.

eh, STL people might kill me for saying this, but Jefferson County feels Southern to me. I know it's not, because the people dont have Southern accents and dont drink sweet tea, but it still feels Southern. So I think the rural areas around STL are probably as "Southern" as the rural areas around KC. And STL is closer to the Ozarks, so that might make the rural areas feel a bit more Southern.

I've met many people from KC and Johnson County KS through school, and they dont strike me as Southern, but they're not very Northern either. They're similar to people I've met in St. Louis.

[MOKAN]

If you look at this map of America's ancestral origins, I think the part of Missouri self-identifying as "American" is going to be the most southern part of the state.

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe those identifying as "American" are mostly Irish, Scotch-Irish, Scottish, and perhaps English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.svg

[GunnerTHB]

onegoal your getting closer but your transition zone is way too generous. Jefferson City upland south/transition? No way. Kansas City? No way. The history of a place doesn't make it one way or another unless its culture is was retained. Saying that the Missouri Valley has maintained its culture from the Little Dixie days is a stretch in my opinion. Also northern Scott County is more catholic and German (and in my opinion more midwestern) than many rural places in Cape Girardeau County, but I can only expect so much accuracy out of a non-local

[stlouisan]

Kansas City is solidly Midwestern. As is Jeff City. The upper boundary of the midwest-south transition zone needs to be shifted at least two counties to the south in most areas. I also think the Dixie area is too far north in some places Joplin and Springfield to me lie more along the transition zone than Dixie.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by Smtchll

eh, STL people might kill me for saying this, but Jefferson County feels Southern to me. I know it's not, because the people dont have Southern accents and dont drink sweet tea, but it still feels Southern. So I think the rural areas around STL are probably as "Southern" as the rural areas around KC. And STL is closer to the Ozarks, so that might make the rural areas feel a bit more Southern.

I've met many people from KC and Johnson County KS through school, and they dont strike me as Southern, but they're not very Northern either. They're similar to people I've met in St. Louis.

Jefferson County is kind of the beginning of the transition zone from Midwest to South. It identifies more as Midwestern for sure, but there is no denying that some Southern influences begin appearing there.