U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-17-2012, 03:34 PM
 
29,990 posts, read 21,072,568 times
Reputation: 12388

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
I understand your point, but I have a problem with a rep from Monroe or Phelps or St. Francois counties having a say in an issue that in no way relates to them. They have no public transportation, and clearly have no dog in this fight. I don't think state legislatures are the appropriate place to make decisions about what hapens with a city's public transportation, particularly in this case because the state of Missouri ranks near the bottom of the list for funding for public transit. They want nothing to do with the funding, so why should they be involved in decision making?

Personally, outside of the local control issues I talked about above, I can think of few things more dangerous than a gun on a train. Leave the law enforcement to the police officers specifically trained for that role.
1) Self-defense is not law enforcement. The carrying of concealed weapons on public transportation does not automatically equate to their use there. Key word is transportation. Those with CCW licenses are likely more "safe" when it comes to lack of criminal record, than the average individual utilizing public transportation. Does the average user of public transportation undergo background checks by the MOHPor that in their own state?

2) Should those coming from the airport headed to their hotels, attending conventions, or otherwise traveling about town, pssibly using public transportation, not be allowed to transport their knife, firearm, or other weapons with them be it on their person or in their luggage? (your previous post essentially states they should not).

2) People traveling on public transportation are traveling to and from destinations where they may need to use any weapon (per Missouri statute this includes more than firearms) for self-defense throughout the course of the day/evening. Certainly you are not suggesting everyone carry their own cop.

3) Again, respectfully, the hodge-podge of laws in states with cities writing their own individual weapons laws has been a disaster in the making. Funding source does not and should not, IMO, mean the control of legislation. That is part of our greater problem. Would you have private corporations writing the legislation if they do the most funding (there's a clue there ).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-23-2012, 06:10 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
7,783 posts, read 9,140,476 times
Reputation: 6830
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragx6 View Post
I understand your point, but I have a problem with a rep from Monroe or Phelps or St. Francois counties having a say in an issue that in no way relates to them. They have no public transportation, and clearly have no dog in this fight. I don't think state legislatures are the appropriate place to make decisions about what hapens with a city's public transportation, particularly in this case because the state of Missouri ranks near the bottom of the list for funding for public transit. They want nothing to do with the funding, so why should they be involved in decision making?

Personally, outside of the local control issues I talked about above, I can think of few things more dangerous than a gun on a train. Leave the law enforcement to the police officers specifically trained for that role.

Amen.......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2012, 11:24 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
2,716 posts, read 1,801,591 times
Reputation: 1838
Out of 40 million boardings per year, Metro has never had more than 20 robberies or assaults on metro buses and train in a year. That is about the same odds as hitting 5 numbers in powerball.

And it is not a blanket prohibition against carrying a deadly weapon; you just have to notify the transit agency beforehand that you will be transporting the weapon. They must use a reasonableness standard to turn down the request, so if you are transporting the weapon unloaded for the sole purpose of self-defense before and after you ride public transit, you can get permission to transport the weapon.

Or you can protect yourself against the 1 in 2 million chance you will be robbed or assaulted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2012, 03:18 PM
 
1,291 posts, read 1,776,728 times
Reputation: 1264
It's better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it.

Anyone with a CCW permit has been vetted and I for one feel safer knowing others around me are armed.

Carrying on a train is no different that carrying anywhere else and if someone wants to legally carry more power to them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2012, 09:50 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
2,716 posts, read 1,801,591 times
Reputation: 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inoxkeeper View Post
Carrying on a train is no different that carrying anywhere else and if someone wants to legally carry more power to them.
Except that carrying on a train dramatically increases the odds that your firearm will be stolen compared to carrying in a private vehicle. That is what I object to here, that this will significantly increase the number of stolen firearms.
Allow it, but with strict requirements as to how the weapon must be carried, e.g. unloaded and secured.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2012, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
2,864 posts, read 1,647,404 times
Reputation: 1555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inoxkeeper View Post
It's better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it.

Anyone with a CCW permit has been vetted and I for one feel safer knowing others around me are armed.

Carrying on a train is no different that carrying anywhere else and if someone wants to legally carry more power to them.

Well stated!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2012, 10:36 AM
 
29,990 posts, read 21,072,568 times
Reputation: 12388
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
Except that carrying on a train dramatically increases the odds that your firearm will be stolen compared to carrying in a private vehicle. That is what I object to here, that this will significantly increase the number of stolen firearms.
Allow it, but with strict requirements as to how the weapon must be carried, e.g. unloaded and secured.
Do you have a link to statistics of those odds you claim?

So your argument is that people, CCW holders specifically, carrying concealed weapons as they may do everyday in public, are going to be attacked on a train, or any means of public transportation, disarmed of a weapon (any concealed weapon covered under the Missouri statute requiring a CCW license http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/chapters/chap571.htm ) a criminal doesn't know that they have, and thus make the train or other means of public transportation more dangerous? Seriously?

Two words come to mind: irrational fear

Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 05-09-2012 at 12:02 PM.. Reason: link to Missouri statute added
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2012, 10:32 AM
 
Location: St. Ann, MO
2,926 posts, read 3,203,057 times
Reputation: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
Except that carrying on a train dramatically increases the odds that your firearm will be stolen compared to carrying in a private vehicle. That is what I object to here, that this will significantly increase the number of stolen firearms.
Allow it, but with strict requirements as to how the weapon must be carried, e.g. unloaded and secured.
You do realize that individuals with CCW are NOT limited to carrying firearms in a car, but can carry them walking down the street, into most businesses, etc?

Most individuals with CCW permits are utilizing a "slim fit" holster design that enables to concealment of the weapon so other individuals don't know they have it.

Are you making the argument that gun thieves who ride trains will be stealing loaded guns on the train, and then use them in armed criminal actions while on the train? If not, what's the difference if the gun is loaded, or not, you can buy the bullets at Walmart!

I don't think that crime is a major problem on the metrolink or other public transportation. So I wouldn't worry to much about someone stealing your firearm, not nearly as much as someone stealing your purse...and you can believe a female carrying concealed in her purse is going to be pretty darn protective of it, likely much more so than just a random individual trying to protect their credit card, and fifty bucks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2012, 10:19 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
2,716 posts, read 1,801,591 times
Reputation: 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynavyj View Post
Are you making the argument that gun thieves who ride trains will be stealing loaded guns on the train, and then use them in armed criminal actions while on the train? If not, what's the difference if the gun is loaded, or not, you can buy the bullets at Walmart!
No. I am making the argument that they will simply steal them just like they do wallets and like they do guns on the street. Bump to detect, cut through the coat or pants and belt(s) or holster to steal.
Public transit is a greater risk of this type of theft because of greater contact in close quarters. That's why there is very little robbery but a lot of larceny.

But now that you mention it, unloaded would make no difference (yes, it means ammunition gets stolen too, but that is easier to obtain than a firearm anyway). So really, there only needs to be a restriction on how the firearms are secured while transported; perhaps requiring belly band or shoulder rig holsters and not allowing belt, ankle, or pocket holsters. At the very least require closed-top instead of open top when carrying on public transit; though I suspect that a closed top paddle holster would offer little more protection than an open top paddle holster.

The more I think about it, unloaded makes no sense. You don't want people to have to load their firearms after arriving at their destination.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2012, 10:23 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
2,716 posts, read 1,801,591 times
Reputation: 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Do you have a link to statistics of those odds you claim?

So your argument is that people, CCW holders specifically, carrying concealed weapons as they may do everyday in public, are going to be attacked on a train, or any means of public transportation, disarmed of a weapon (any concealed weapon covered under the Missouri statute requiring a CCW license CHAPTER 571 ) a criminal doesn't know that they have, and thus make the train or other means of public transportation more dangerous? Seriously?

Two words come to mind: irrational fear
No.
My concern is that a criminal will do a bump, detect something on the person's body, steal that item, which will end up being a firearm, and sell that firearm on the street. The victim will have no idea until much later.

Just look at the huge number of firearms stolen during the previous NRA convention, and how that led to a huge spike in firearm crimes the following summer (I have yet to see any stats on stolen firearms at the latest convention, the NRA did a much better job alerting people to the risk this time).

I don't think the criminal will attack people with concealed weapons. I think getting attacked on metrolink and other transit is highly unlikely. I think they will merely target people for larceny and by sheer odds occasionally detect and steal a firearm. Certain types of holsters (and especially carrying in a purse or briefcase) will make this much more likely to happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $89,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top