Where in Missouri does the South begin? (St. Louis, Springfield: restaurant, floors)

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by MoSouthernMan

Now just saying this, but lets say St. Louis city, St. Louis County, and St. Charles County were not part of Missouri but were part of the state of IL, then you certainly could make the argument that Missouri possibly leans southern then. Because that is the most Midwestern and most populated area of the state which is a major influence of the midwesterness in the state.

Who cares?

[nlst]

Originally Posted by MoSouthernMan

Now just saying this, but lets say St. Louis city, St. Louis County, and St. Charles County were not part of Missouri but were part of the state of IL, then you certainly could make the argument that Missouri possibly leans southern then. Because that is the most Midwestern and most populated area of the state which is a major influence of the midwesterness in the state.

That would leave Just Kansas City being the only major city in the state which is Midwestern. Other medium sized cities like Springfield, Cape are pretty southern, and Rolla being in the transition zone.

While it wouldn't be officially southern, there certainly would be a stronger argument about what kind of state Missouri is though.

One thing for sure without St. Louis and Stl county, Missouri would be Republican at all levels at state and federal government. They already hold super majorities in both houses in Jeff City, but the governors mansion, Atty General, US senators would all be Republican almost always. Would resemble more like Arizona or Utah, or Kansas when it comes to Republicans. Kansas City alone wouldn't be able to overcome the rest of the state, plus KC isn't quite as liberal as stl.

What Columbia and Jefferson City? Both of these cities are Midwestern. The northern half of the state is unquestionably Lower Midwest. Are there southern influences? Yes, but not nearly enough to call the state's identity into question. Missouri without KC and STL would still be an overall Midwestern state.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by nlst

What Columbia and Jefferson City? Both of these cities are Midwestern. The northern half of the state is unquestionably Lower Midwest. Are there southern influences? Yes, but not nearly enough to call the state's identity into question. Missouri without KC and STL would still be an overall Midwestern state.

Columbia isn't a huge city though, and Jefferson city is around the transition zone area. As Stlouisan another poster said there is still southern influences in the Little Dixie area in central MO. He was living there recently and commented in some areas it's like 60 percent Midwestern and 40 percent southern and that the southern influences were noticeable in the area.

If KC and Stl were not in Missouri I disagree. Columbia would be the only medium sized city that is truly Midwestern. Cape, Springfield, the next two biggest cities are mostly southern, and Joplin leans south too but has some Midwest influences due to being so far west. Without KC and STL Southern Baptist would way outnumber the catholics in the state as well then.

If KC and STL were not in MO, MO would be similar to West Virginia I think.

[imbored198824]

I agree if kc and Stl metro areas were not parts of Missouri there is no doubt it would be considered a southern state.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

I agree is kc and Stl metro areas were not parts of Missouri there is no doubt it would be considered a southern state.

Agree, but not by a ton because you have the NW part of the state that jets pretty far northwest.

I think it would be along the lines of Oklahoma and West Virginia because they're still southern but not to the extent of other southern states and Oklahoma gets lumped in as Midwestern and western sometimes.

So I think it would tilt southern, really borderline or slightly more southern than Midwestern, but I think it would certainly be lumped in with the other southern states more because culturally the demographics would line up with the other southern states.

[imbored198824]

Most tourists I deal with from Oklahoma have no southern accent. Only certain parts of Oklahoma are culturally southern. Most tourists I see from around Oklahoma City and no southern dialect whatsoever. Eastern Oklahoma and southern Oklahoma are probably more southern feeling.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

Most tourists I deal with from Oklahoma have no southern accent. Only certain parts of Oklahoma are culturally southern. Most tourists I see from around Oklahoma City and no southern dialect whatsoever. Eastern Oklahoma and southern Oklahoma are probably more southern feeling.

Agree. Overall I consider it a Southern state though, but yes good size chunks of it are not really southern.

Politics wise they do have a southern trait still how at the state level they tend to vote heavily democrat still when most of the other southern states most conservatives are now republicans. Kinda like southeast MO and the Dixiecrats how there are still some conservative old time southern democrats left.

Arkansas in both houses last election went republican for the first time in 150 years!

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

Most tourists I deal with from Oklahoma have no southern accent. Only certain parts of Oklahoma are culturally southern. Most tourists I see from around Oklahoma City and no southern dialect whatsoever. Eastern Oklahoma and southern Oklahoma are probably more southern feeling.

Oh and checkout my other thread! They finally put the Confederate Battle Flag back up at Higginsville that One Term Bob Holden had removed!

Oh and THB can you tell me more about this road in Bollinger county since it's near your stomping grounds about this old church the confederates used at times?

http://www.examiner.com/article/of-j...ounty-Missouri

If you follow Opossum Creek Road (also known as Bollinger County Road 502), from beginning to end, you will know doubt easily notice several Confederate flags that dot the landscape, flown by those who want commemorate the history of the Military Trail.

[nlst]

Originally Posted by MoSouthernMan

Columbia isn't a huge city though, and Jefferson city is around the transition zone area. As Stlouisan another poster said there is still southern influences in the Little Dixie area in central MO. He was living there recently and commented in some areas it's like 60 percent Midwestern and 40 percent southern and that the southern influences were noticeable in the area.

If KC and Stl were not in Missouri I disagree. Columbia would be the only medium sized city that is truly Midwestern. Cape, Springfield, the next two biggest cities are mostly southern, and Joplin leans south too but has some Midwest influences due to being so far west. Without KC and STL Southern Baptist would way outnumber the catholics in the state as well then.

If KC and STL were not in MO, MO would be similar to West Virginia I think.

Strongly disagree. The Northern half of the state is unquestionably Midwestern. West Virginia over 2/3 of the state is considered part of the South. And why are we trying to get rid of KC and STL anyway? Imagine what the rest of Illinois would be like if Chicago were given to Wisconsin. You'd have a pretty similar situation to Missouri if that happened. The point is...take any major city out of a state in you get a drastic change. Nebraska would be similar if Omaha and Lincoln were removed from the picture and given to Iowa. I would also say that Cape and Springfield are little on the bottom of the transition zone you described.

[nlst]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

Most tourists I deal with from Oklahoma have no southern accent. Only certain parts of Oklahoma are culturally southern. Most tourists I see from around Oklahoma City and no southern dialect whatsoever. Eastern Oklahoma and southern Oklahoma are probably more southern feeling.

You've obviously never studied a linguistics map. Oklahoma is by and large a Southern state culturally as well. In terms of politics and religion, it fits the bill to a T. Oklahoma is a Southern state.