Where in Missouri does the South begin? (Springfield, Joplin: food, farm)

[nlst]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

I agree if kc and Stl metro areas were not parts of Missouri there is no doubt it would be considered a southern state.

Oh please. Maybe in the southern part of the state it would be...not in the remaining 3/4 of the state. Missouri is not majority Midwestern solely because of KC and STL, and those two cities deserve to be in this state just as much as Springfield. You seem to hate these other two cities...they certainly are much more significant in presence, power, and feel than Springfield. I'd be embarrassed to be from the southern part of the state...it doesn't have any truly large cities compared to the middle part of the state. How anybody is fine with that floors me..of course being from a big city myself biases me.

[imbored198824]

Originally Posted by nlst

You've obviously never studied a linguistics map. Oklahoma is by and large a Southern state culturally as well. In terms of politics and religion, it fits the bill to a T. Oklahoma is a Southern state.

Yes I have studied a linguistic map. Over 1/2 of Oklahoma isn't in the southern dialect zone. Also I wasn't speaking from a personal standpoint. I guarantee you I talk to more people from Oklahoma every day than the average Missourian does. About 1/4 of our tourists are from Oklahoma. I didn't mentoon politics or religion at all..... Someone I work with from Oklahoma City was telling me he has "picked up" a southern accent since moving to Branson.

[nlst]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

Yes I have studied a linguistic map. Over 1/2 of Oklahoma isn't in the southern dialect zone. Also I wasn't speaking from a personal standpoint. I guarantee you I talk to more people from Oklahoma every day than the average Missourian does. About 1/4 of our tourists are from Oklahoma. I didn't mentoon politics or religion at all..... Someone I work with from Oklahoma City was telling me he has "picked up" a southern accent since moving to Branson.

I honestly don't care about your perspective, because it's wrong, and you are trying to make Missouri as Southern as Oklahoma, which is a blatant lie. Most of Oklahoma, over half of it, speaks the Southern dialect. And it's perfectly possible for somebody to grow up in a city and not have an accent and move to a place like Branson, which is more country, and pick the accent up there. Accents don't tend to prevail nearly as heavily in the cities as in the country. Oklahoma is more southern than Missouri will ever be and is a true Southern state. Missouri leans more Midwestern than Southern.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by nlst

You've obviously never studied a linguistics map. Oklahoma is by and large a Southern state culturally as well. In terms of politics and religion, it fits the bill to a T. Oklahoma is a Southern state.

Except at the state level they still vote democrat even though at the Federal level they vote for republican candidates.

The rest of the southern states and including Missouri most conservatives are Republican now. Arkansas finally at the state level both houses are now controlled by the Republicans. First time since reconstruction that has happened.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by nlst

I honestly don't care about your perspective, because it's wrong, and you are trying to make Missouri as Southern as Oklahoma, which is a blatant lie. Most of Oklahoma, over half of it, speaks the Southern dialect. And it's perfectly possible for somebody to grow up in a city and not have an accent and move to a place like Branson, which is more country, and pick the accent up there. Accents don't tend to prevail nearly as heavily in the cities as in the country. Oklahoma is more southern than Missouri will ever be and is a true Southern state. Missouri leans more Midwestern than Southern.

Oklahoma is a southern state but I wouldn't call it a TRUE southern state. Western parts of OK are more western leaning.

Oklahoma is a hybrid. You seriously can't compare it to MS, AL, or GA which are true southern states.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

Yes I have studied a linguistic map. Over 1/2 of Oklahoma isn't in the southern dialect zone. Also I wasn't speaking from a personal standpoint. I guarantee you I talk to more people from Oklahoma every day than the average Missourian does. About 1/4 of our tourists are from Oklahoma. I didn't mentoon politics or religion at all..... Someone I work with from Oklahoma City was telling me he has "picked up" a southern accent since moving to Branson.

Plus OK City is a big city and a lot of people from big cities don't have southern accents at all. It seems big southern cities the people tend to have a flat accent compared to the rest of the rural areas.

[linicx]

US Census Bureau says OK is Southern. Both Tulsa and OKC have metro areas of over 1M. The restaurants, parks and other public resources are on a par with most other cities of a similar size. What sets the two apart is 100 miles. OK also has and a large Native American population. If there is a rival to either city it is most likely Albuquerque. If you visit rural OK you will hear many different speech patterns.

When I lived near Springfield, MO., many of my neighbors were good hearted country folks who were born and raised in Kentucky, drove trucks, and retired to Missouri.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by linicx

US Census Bureau says OK is Southern. Both Tulsa and OKC have metro areas of over 1M. The restaurants, parks and other public resources are on a par with most other cities of a similar size. What sets the two apart is 100 miles. OK also has and a large Native American population. If there is a rival to either city it is most likely Albuquerque. If you visit rural OK you will hear many different speech patterns.

When I lived near Springfield, MO., many of my neighbors were good hearted country folks who were born and raised in Kentucky, drove trucks, and retired to Missouri.

And the census also calls MD and DE southern when they're NOT!

Missouri is heck of a lot more southern than MD or DE. MD only has a small amount of southern left in the Eastern shore and that's it! DE none.

Interesting why they would retire to Missouri when the Ozarks are similar to many parts of KY and that. Only difference is that the southern quarter of Missouri is a little warmer than parts of KY. I mean like Joplin, Branson, West Plains have a pretty mild climate and are pretty much southern also.

I just don't see the hassle of moving to KY to far southern MO when it's not really different. Unless you're from northern KY where their winters are actually slightly colder than St. Louis even then why not just move to southern KY or TN if you wanted warmer.

[imbored198824]

Originally Posted by nlst

I honestly don't care about your perspective, because it's wrong, and you are trying to make Missouri as Southern as Oklahoma, which is a blatant lie. Most of Oklahoma, over half of it, speaks the Southern dialect. And it's perfectly possible for somebody to grow up in a city and not have an accent and move to a place like Branson, which is more country, and pick the accent up there. Accents don't tend to prevail nearly as heavily in the cities as in the country. Oklahoma is more southern than Missouri will ever be and is a true Southern state. Missouri leans more Midwestern than Southern.

I am simply stating southern missouri is more southern feeling than anywhere in Oklahoma. It's a fact even people that don't agree that Missouri is a southern state can't deny that southern Missouri is very southern. There is nowhere in Oklahoma that is as southern as the Ozarks or the delta in southeast Missouri! I probably talked to 50 different people from Oklahoma today. Maybe 10 had a southern accent.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

I am simply stating southern missouri is more southern feeling than anywhere in Oklahoma. It's a fact even people that don't agree that Missouri is a southern state can't deny that southern Missouri is very southern. There is nowhere in Oklahoma that is as southern as the Ozarks or the delta in southeast Missouri! I probably talked to 50 different people from Oklahoma today. Maybe 10 had a southern accent.

Well as far as the southern southern Missouri Ozarks and northern Arkansas Ozarks like I said they're in Dixie and they're southern but it's not as heavy of a southern like GA, AL, MS, southern AR, but more upper south southern similar to parts of central and eastern TN, GA mountains, KY.

Now the Missouri Bootheel like New Madrid, Caruthersville, Kennett, Sikeston, Dexter, Malden etc are very southern and probably they're more southern than anywhere in OK. There is no great plains or Midwest influence in those places like OK has. They're 100 percent southern.

This is great map of dialect based on an ongoing study. Univ of PA map is similar too.

It shows about 50 percent of the state of OK in the southern dialect, but Tulsa and OK City just outside of it.

http://aschmann.net/AmEng/index_coll...shDialects.png