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Old 06-20-2013, 02:13 PM
 
936 posts, read 810,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLviaMSP View Post
"You need to get out of St Louis and meet the real Missouri."

The "real" Missouri? I wasn't aware that your little corner of the state was anything more than a misplaced section of Arkansas or Tennessee or whatever. Mainline Protestants, Catholics, Jews, etc together easily outnumber the SBC in MO and certainly form a decisive majority. That cannot be said of actual southern states. But I'll admit there are just enough southern minded folks to royally f*** the state's politics.
You made the bogus claim that no "self-respecting Midwestern" would belong to the SBC.

Then please explain the nearly 1 million SBC Missourians who have lost their self-respect.

BTW, you have me confused with someone else. I'm not in the bootheel. I'm in a suburb of Kansas City.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:18 PM
 
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Outside the Stl metro area and MS hills region, most of MO counties are more Baptist.

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Old 06-20-2013, 02:19 PM
 
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797k is a lot less than a million. The population of a lot of those red counties ^ is pretty infinitessimal compared with many of the blue counties, by the way Great Lakes megalopolis, baby!
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:25 PM
 
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Sorry - I had you confused with that punkass born in 1988. Here's a more useful map, by the way:

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Old 06-20-2013, 02:33 PM
 
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Actually I think my map I posted was from 2000.

There is a 2010 updated census map that looks similar but a county or two in central MO is Baptist now.

I'll have to look for it again sometime.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoSouthernMan View Post
Actually I think my map I posted was from 2000.

There is a 2010 updated census map that looks similar but a county or two in central MO is Baptist now.

I'll have to look for it again sometime.
But all of the maps you've posted still present a skewed picture of religion in Missouri. Baptists are fundamentalists. Where are their second cousins, the evangelicals, another religious group that is strong across the south? They go hand in hand and they work together. Collectively, they would probably double the SBC numbers in Missouri and vica versa.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:23 PM
 
Location: MO
2,122 posts, read 3,658,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLviaMSP View Post
Back to the OP and trying to understand what makes a place southern versus midwestern.

Churches are a mounmental piece of the picture. Southern areas have a lot of churches backed by the Southern Baptist Convention, which is a PAC, er, I mean "church" that is responsible for spearheading an astounding number of boneheaded, socially and economically regressive nonsense. Look up a who's who of southern political figures and their religious backgrounds. Midwestern congregatations tend to be more Lutheran, Methodist, UCC, Catholic, UU, etc. Generally more tolerant. Also no self respecting midwesterner would be a member of the SBC. These mostly non-overlapping religious traditions are very likely at the center of the culture wars that have been going on for 150 years. The people of the south generally were either slaveholders, white indentured servants or some other variety of poor white, or black slaves. A very hierarchal culture with massive social/economic inequality, economically impoverished except for the few, and mostly springing from uneducated roots. Compared to the immigrants of the north, who generally had skills and education and came here free, often to flee from the kind of conditions that were prevalent in the south, hence the general lack of European immigration to the south. This is why almost all of the top tier universities are in the north or on the west coast. I could go on, but this should be enough for you to get the point - the south is recovering from and will continue to recover from its many deficits for years to come. But it might as well be a different country as its heritage has almost nothing in common with most of the rest of the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STLviaMSP View Post
"You need to get out of St Louis and meet the real Missouri."

The "real" Missouri? I wasn't aware that your little corner of the state was anything more than a misplaced section of Arkansas or Tennessee or whatever. Mainline Protestants, Catholics, Jews, etc together easily outnumber the SBC in MO and certainly form a decisive majority. That cannot be said of actual southern states. But I'll admit there are just enough southern minded folks to royally f*** the state's politics.
I have no idea what your problem is, but you are way off base. Around here I hear the Catholics complain more than anyone about abortion being legal, contraception and liberals waging war on religion. The Mississippi hills region, one of the most heavily German (and consequently Catholic/Lutheran) settled parts of the state voted Republican overwhelmingly in 2012. I'm positive it is due to the abortion/contraception issue that you only blame southerners for. They aren't any more tolerant either. The local rural SBC church has a black pastor while if I was black at either of the two local rural Lutheran churches I would probably be ran out of the place. My dad was raised Pentecostal and even he has a tendency to vote for moderate Democrats despite being pretty conservative overall. President Obama won 3 counties in Missouri + St. Louis city, all relatively urban areas.

So quit the BS acting like members of the SBC have no sense when it comes to voting while Mainline Protestants and Catholics are God's gift to democracy. I go to an evangelical Baptist church and I don't consider myself to be particularly socially conservative. I try my best to not judge people and that is probably the reason why I am not a hardliner when it comes to social issues.

And RDM has a point. There is more to every state than it's cities. I understand you are an urban dweller and probably always will be. That is fine, but you can make a point without trying to belittle the importance of the rural areas, especially in a state like Missouri, which is 2nd in the number of farms only behind Texas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDM66 View Post
But all of the maps you've posted still present a skewed picture of religion in Missouri. Baptists are fundamentalists. Where are their second cousins, the evangelicals, another religious group that is strong across the south? They go hand in hand and they work together. Collectively, they would probably double the SBC numbers in Missouri and vica versa.
They are skewed for that exact reason. If you didn't go be denomination but by family (Meaning all Baptists grouped together, all Lutherans grouped together, etc...) my paticular county would be majority Pentecostal. But I think I have seen a map that shows religions divided up by Mainline Protestant, Evangelical Protestant, and Catholic.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,320,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbacchus View Post
Examples? Or links to examples?

I'm not familiar with details of Midwest nor southern culture, outside of the well-known stereotypes.
They're a state of mind as much as anything else. You'd really have to live them to know them and their differences. I'm not aware of any checklist.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:51 PM
 
320 posts, read 607,477 times
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"So quit the BS acting like members of the SBC have no sense"

When I see that to be the case, then I will. And I never said all Germans or all Catholics were god's gift to democracy. There is, however, a tendency to better voting and better policy in places lacking southerners. Until then, and as long as the SBC maintain their hostile stance toward progressivism, I will hold them in low esteem.
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:24 PM
 
936 posts, read 810,358 times
Reputation: 2525
Quote:
Originally Posted by STLviaMSP View Post
"So quit the BS acting like members of the SBC have no sense"

When I see that to be the case, then I will. And I never said all Germans or all Catholics were god's gift to democracy. There is, however, a tendency to better voting and better policy in places lacking southerners. Until then, and as long as the SBC maintain their hostile stance toward progressivism, I will hold them in low esteem.
The SBC might be the largest Baptist denomination in the US, but they aren't the only Baptists. There are at least 101 different types of Baptists that run the spectrum from the American Baptist (liberals) to primitive Baptists (hardcore conservatives.) The SBC lies in the middle. You'll find these Baptist churches throughout Missouri too.

Personally, I was raised as a Missionary Baptist. They are actually more conservative on many issues than the SBC, but only a few steps higher up the food chain from the primitive Baptists.
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