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Old 08-25-2018, 02:28 PM
 
19,657 posts, read 9,967,695 times
Reputation: 13001

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyover_Country View Post
It's not insurance if you can get the carrier to pay for something that occurred before the policy was taken out. Insurance is designed to pay for unanticipated, unexpected costs that arise after you obtain coverage. None of us have any issue with car insurance not covering the cost to fix collision damage that occurred before you signed up for car insurance. None of us have any issues with car insurance not paying for new windshield wipers, oil changes, or tire rotations.
So you are okay with diabetics not having medical coverage?
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:52 PM
 
Location: SW MO
662 posts, read 1,220,667 times
Reputation: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
So you are okay with diabetics not having medical coverage?

I am not okay with paying for diabetics' known and often substantial medical costs through my "insurance" premiums. That is not insurance, that is simply making me pay for their known medical conditions.


I am not against guaranteed issue, however it must be risk-rated. The issue is that the 400 pound diabetic who eats 3 meals a day at fast food restaurants, has COPD and smokes 2 packs per day, moves only 100 feet in an entire day, had a four-vessel bypass and has an LDL of 250 and refuses to take any and all cholesterol medications because of "something they read on the Internet" pays about the same as I do, and I don't smoke, weigh a normal weight, don't do drugs, and exercise regularly. My risk-rated price may be a few hundred per year (it was that before Obamacare.) Now it's twice that PER MONTH. My risk hasn't changed, I simply have to subsidize everybody else's poor lifestyles. I'm not OK with that. Have them pay the thousands per month if they want their lifestyle-related conditions "covered" and maybe they may change their behavior.
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Old 08-25-2018, 07:48 PM
 
Location: STL area
2,125 posts, read 1,375,640 times
Reputation: 3994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
So you are okay with diabetics not having medical coverage?
Or...
Kids with Type 1 diabetes
Congenital heat defects
Congenital kidney disease
Cleft lip and palate
A history of cancer that could recur
Anaphylactic allergies
And so many other things that no one can control

It’s so hard to see why conservatives are seen as heartless
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Old 08-26-2018, 03:14 AM
 
Location: SW MO
662 posts, read 1,220,667 times
Reputation: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by STL74 View Post
Or...
Kids with Type 1 diabetes
Congenital heat defects
Congenital kidney disease
Cleft lip and palate
A history of cancer that could recur
Anaphylactic allergies
And so many other things that no one can control

It’s so hard to see why conservatives are seen as heartless

Let's look at your examples.



- Number 2 ( I assume you meant "heart defects") and number 4 would not have been pre-existing at the time of their diagnosis. The subsequent curative surgical treatment would be covered. Having a subsequent exclusion would not be an issue as the defects would be repaired.


- Number 6 requires paying attention to your environment to avoid the trigger and an EpiPen kit that is a few hundred bucks per year to have on hand. Even if you do have an episode, it typically results in an ER visit that is a grand or two. Obamacare compliant "insurance" costs $500-1000 per month with a $2k-$7k premium. It's much more expensive to have this "covered" than to simply pay cash.


- Number 1 is similar, treating type 1 diabetes is generally a few hundred per month for insulin and testing supplies. You typically have four doctor visits per year at about $200 each. Still less to pay cash than to have it "covered" unless you are irresponsible and don't adhere to your treatment and have preventable complications. Others should not be responsible for paying for your nonadherence to treatment.



- Cancers are not pre-existing when they are initially diagnosed and as above, treatment would be covered. In most cases, treatment is either permanently successful or it is unsuccessful and the person dies. Most cases of recurrent cancer either happen years in the future (the exclusion expires and it is covered again) or is due to some nearly always lifestyle risk factor being present (such as smoking or tanning.) Again, others should not be responsible for paying for your lifestyle choices.



- Congenital kidney disease is rare and the expensive part is dialysis and transplant. That is not handled by private insurance as dialysis patients are on Medicare. This is not germane to the discussion about pre-existing conditions and private insurance.


You probably will come back with one particular story of one person with a very uncommon situation. No system is perfect and subsidizing the poor lifestyle choices of a large number of people to prevent a tiny number of rare corner cases is horrible policy. The corner cases should be handled as they always had been, on a case by case basis by charity.
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Old 08-26-2018, 04:19 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
685 posts, read 755,397 times
Reputation: 866
This country will be single-payer eventually, and for good reason. As incomes stagnate and health care costs rise, the masses will vote for it. Insurance will no longer be a part of the health care industry.

Using Flyover's logic, we shouldn't have Medicare or Medicaid. After all, they both cover known pre-existing conditions without risk-based payment. And yet, they are pillars of American society, much like Social Security insurance.
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:19 PM
 
Location: SW MO
662 posts, read 1,220,667 times
Reputation: 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil View Post
This country will be single-payer eventually, and for good reason. As incomes stagnate and health care costs rise, the masses will vote for it. Insurance will no longer be a part of the health care industry.

There won't be single-payer healthcare payment in the US as there will always remain the option to contract privately on your own dime for medical services. Europe isn't single-payer, Australia isn't, and Canada currently isn't either.



What may happen is extending Medicare or Medicaid to everybody. That will not work because both Medicare and especially Medicaid reimburse below cost. Medicare pays about 80-85% of the cost of the physicians and hospital to treat you, and Medicaid is far worse than that. If the people with private insurance (which may reimburse close to twice what Medicare does) are gone, then there's nobody to cost shift to. Physicians and hospitals will not accept Medicare or Medicaid as they lose money and go out of business. It is very unlikely that reimbursements will rise as that directly contradicts the last 40 years of CMS policy, which is lower reimbursements, lower reimbursements, and lower reimbursements. So everybody will have "insurance coverage" that is completely worthless as nobody will accept it.



Quote:
Using Flyover's logic, we shouldn't have Medicare or Medicaid. After all, they both cover known pre-existing conditions without risk-based payment. And yet, they are pillars of American society, much like Social Security insurance.

They are not the pillars of society, those are rugged individualism, a good work ethic, and family. Some may also add religion in there. Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are the pillars of the welfare state, which are also the pillars of our massive debt. Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security at the very least need some enormous reforms.

Last edited by Flyover_Country; 08-26-2018 at 09:31 PM..
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Old 08-26-2018, 11:44 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,442 posts, read 6,962,188 times
Reputation: 4601
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Exactly. It's interesting to notice how the political dynamics have changed.

Greitens has resigned.

McDonnell, the DA who botched the Michael Brown case in Ferguson, just got turned out of office.

Voters have also defeated a right-to-work law.

McCaskill is pretty much in a dead heat with Cawley now.
McCollough didn't botch anything. We are going to continue to see a crime spike in STL county. I'm not sure they even prosecute crime in STL city anymore with Kim Gardner. Hell, they can't even pick up trash.
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:00 AM
 
3,822 posts, read 3,258,380 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
McCollough didn't botch anything. We are going to continue to see a crime spike in STL county. I'm not sure they even prosecute crime in STL city anymore with Kim Gardner. Hell, they can't even pick up trash.
Yep. Many prosecutors have quit in St. Louis city because of her incompetence. Joyce, the last circuit attorney was a liberal too but competent though.

So you have an even more liberal prosecutor who is also incompetent take over.

That unqualified black liberal won because of the chancing demographics of north county. Even the late Keith English told me about the changing demographics of his district. North in and around Ferguson was once mainly blue collar whites. Since the car plant shutdown and other stuff, most have fled. Now you have ultra liberal blacks from stl city moving in, many with criminal records and they got out and voted this aug.

Bob is also a liberal prosecutor btw. He is an anti gunner and fought against concealed carry for years as well ever since he took office in 1992. He's not incompetent though, but he's a liberal still.

I agree crime will keep going up. At least Missouri has great laws regarding self defense though and not needing a permit to carry. However as we have seen in other cases across the country all because there is a stand your ground law doesn't mean they won't charge you anyway.

Btw Bob could still run as an independent this nov. With a higher turnout it's possible he can win the election since he has more name recognition and no Republican to run again.
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,706,777 times
Reputation: 6417
I have been away from Missouri too long and since the state has gone dark red, I have quite paying attention even more. But can somebody summarize what is wrong with McCaskill? I honestly don't know anything about her.
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Old 08-27-2018, 12:50 PM
 
19,657 posts, read 9,967,695 times
Reputation: 13001
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
I have been away from Missouri too long and since the state has gone dark red, I have quite paying attention even more. But can somebody summarize what is wrong with McCaskill? I honestly don't know anything about her.
To start with, she is anti-gun.
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