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My husband and I currently live in frosty Minnesota, and are thinking of relocating to Missouri or Tennessee. We both grew up on rural farms in central MN, but have been living just south of the Twin Cities for several years. While we love the convenience that that the Twin Cities offers, we have decided that the endless -30 degree days and extremely high cost of living just doesn't suit us. We just finished up a trip to eastern TN, and really liked Knoxville. I've been to Saint Louis a time of two (and loved it), but never really ventured much farther into the state than that. My mother-in-law and mom went on trail riding trips with their horses in Missouri and were smitten with the natural beauty.
I was hoping to get some insight from some locals about what life in Missouri is like, and what the different metros are like. We are looking closely at Springfield due to it's close proximity to the reservoirs (my husband is way into bass fishing), large amount of things to do, good job market and affordable housing. We are in our 20's/early 30's and are looking for a good place to start a family with many things for a young family to do. My husband works in health care, so the good hospitals is a big draw. I have been in the military for the past 6 years, and will be transitioning into the civilian information security (IT) sector. We would really like to find a place to live that offers a selection of jobs, and Springfield seems like a good fit. That being said we are open to suggestions!
Our hobbies mostly include fishing, hiking, and once a week going out for dinner. Boring, right!? I have read that the people of MO are pretty welcoming toward newcomers. While I know it's hard to make such a broad generalization like that, does anyone have an opinion on the general attitude toward out of towners? We both talk like we are straight out of the movie Fargo, so there will be no blending in to start with.
Any input is greatly appreciated! I'm the type to over-research and analyze before I make a decision, for fear of making the wrong one. We are excited at the prospect of moving someplace a little (tiny bit) warmer than here and putting down new roots.
Missouri will be a bit lower paying than Minnesota. Overall the state is much more conservative than MN so it depends on your politics. The pace will be slower as well, and you will be in the bible belt of Evangelicals, Southern Baptist. Southern MO is really conservative. While the pay is lower in MO and TN compared to MN overall cost of living is very cheap in MO in general and yes being in southern Missouri it will be A LOT warmer than MN. You will get a number of days in the winter where temps will reach 70 degrees and wear short sleeve shirts.
Weather in Knoxville won't be much different than southern MO. Also if you're into outdoors southern MO is great.
Missouri also ranks much better than Tennessee for gun rights. In Missouri you can move here and carry concealed without a permit. Something you can't do in MN or TN.
Eastern TN and the Ozarks have a lot in common. After all, many in the Ozarks have ancestors from the Appalachian Mountains hence why you see some similarities in the two cultures of northern Arkansas and Southern Missouri. Eastern TN seems to get more ice storms though.
If you're liberal, outside of KC, Stl, and the Columbia area, the whole state is pretty far to the right.
Springfield area might be a good fit.
Nixa and Ozark are popular with families. They have some of the better schools in Missouri, from what I've heard. Branson and nearby lakes to the south, Stockton and Truman lakes to the north. 3 hours from Kansas City and 4 hours to St. Louis for bigger city stuff.
I like that area much better than Knoxville, personally, and Missouri more than Tennessee in general.
Even far southern Missouri has a midwestern vibe by comparison, which I like, but at that point we're just getting into personal preference stuff.
Columbia might offer a similar feel, but it's a little smaller and more of a college-centered town I think. Some might like that, I guess.
Cost of living in southern MO is dirt cheap. In-laws pay $200 or less a year, yes, a year, on property taxes. It might be a bit higher in larger towns, but still...Vehicle license plates are $25 a year I think. There is a personal property tax on vehicles, boats, trailers, etc. that usually isn't enough to make up for lower taxes elsewhere unless you have some real high-dollar stuff.
Real estate might be 25-50% less than what you're used to.
The downside would be wages, but it depends on your field to some extent.
The summers will be longer and hotter. Winter is a mixed bag, but obviously not as cold. Spring storms can be freaky. Fall is the best season in the Ozarks, but don't expect much color every year.
Springfield area might be a good fit.
Nixa and Ozark are popular with families. They have some of the better schools in Missouri, from what I've heard. Branson and nearby lakes to the south, Stockton and Truman lakes to the north. 3 hours from Kansas City and 4 hours to St. Louis for bigger city stuff.
I like that area much better than Knoxville, personally, and Missouri more than Tennessee in general.
Even far southern Missouri has a midwestern vibe by comparison, which I like, but at that point we're just getting into personal preference stuff.
Columbia might offer a similar feel, but it's a little smaller and more of a college-centered town I think. Some might like that, I guess.
Cost of living in southern MO is dirt cheap. In-laws pay $200 or less a year, yes, a year, on property taxes. It might be a bit higher in larger towns, but still...Vehicle license plates are $25 a year I think. There is a personal property tax on vehicles, boats, trailers, etc. that usually isn't enough to make up for lower taxes elsewhere unless you have some real high-dollar stuff.
Real estate might be 25-50% less than what you're used to.
The downside would be wages, but it depends on your field to some extent.
The summers will be longer and hotter. Winter is a mixed bag, but obviously not as cold. Spring storms can be freaky. Fall is the best season in the Ozarks, but don't expect much color every year.
the northern part of Southern MO, yea, but the southern quarter like around Branson there is nothing Midwestern about it in that area of the state and really nothing in common with MN. The last time I was in Branson we really stuck out being just before tourist season and almost everyone down there had the upper south Ozarks accent and us with flat st. louis speech patterns.
Even coming from St. Louis, the southern quarter of MO feels like a totally different planet, I imagine coming from the upper Midwest it would feel even more odd.
Around the MO river is where the transition zone begins, then when you're about 10-20 miles north of highway 60 it pretty much becomes fully southern. Linguistics maps also follow this too and almost everyone on here agrees the southern quarter of Missouri is the south, with north of that a mixture like southern IL and southern IN are.
Yes, Southwest Missouri I would say has somewhat of a Midwestern, plains influence. Places like Joplin, Springfield and such. Similar to northeastern Oklahoma. Leans southern of course but some Midwest influences in it.
Overall, MO is 50 percent Midwestern, 25 percent mix of southern and Midwestern, and 25 percent fully southern. Overall makes the state more Midwestern in modern times but with strong southern influences not found in any other Midwest state as part of MO is in the south and is a border state.
the northern part of Southern MO, yea, but the southern quarter like around Branson there is nothing Midwestern about it in that area of the state and really nothing in common with MN. The last time I was in Branson we really stuck out being just before tourist season and almost everyone down there had the upper south Ozarks accent and us with flat st. louis speech patterns.
Even coming from St. Louis, the southern quarter of MO feels like a totally different planet, I imagine coming from the upper Midwest it would feel even more odd.
Around the MO river is where the transition zone begins, then when you're about 10-20 miles north of highway 60 it pretty much becomes fully southern. Linguistics maps also follow this too and almost everyone on here agrees the southern quarter of Missouri is the south, with north of that a mixture like southern IL and southern IN are.
Yes, Southwest Missouri I would say has somewhat of a Midwestern, plains influence. Places like Joplin, Springfield and such. Similar to northeastern Oklahoma. Leans southern of course but some Midwest influences in it.
Overall, MO is 50 percent Midwestern, 25 percent mix of southern and Midwestern, and 25 percent fully southern. Overall makes the state more Midwestern in modern times but with strong southern influences not found in any other Midwest state as part of MO is in the south and is a border state.
Not to veer off topic too much, I respect your view, but I see it a little differently. Not too much so.
I've lived in Arkansas, far southern MO, KC area, Tennessee, the Great Lakes region, and others. Far southern MO is as similar to central MO as it is to Arkansas. Very different from Tennessee. Far southern MO sounds like Arkansas, but not always, and is still more Midwestern in execution.... mostly. It does get murky and can change from town to town.
Branson is so touristy and transient that it can seem more northern than Springfield at times. A ton of retirees from the north live in the area, and northerners vacation there a lot.
I live just close enough to shop with the locals, during off-season. It's just very diverse in a regional sense.
Honestly, I think the OP will be giving up quite a bit in terms of salaries and overall opportunities in southern MO compared to areas south of the Twin Cities. I would recommend the Rochester, MN area, plenty of job growth, and reasonable cost of living overall. The -30F is not reality in terms of air temperatures, I've lived in the upper Midwest for many years. In terms of wind chill, yes, you will have an occasional stretch of wind chill values of lower than -30F. Also, southern MO reservoirs have nothing in common with MN lakes, but I'm sure the OP is aware of that. Also, do not underestimate the extreme sun angle combined with heat and humidity of southern MO compared to MN.
Not to veer off topic too much, I respect your view, but I see it a little differently. Not too much so.
I've lived in Arkansas, far southern MO, KC area, Tennessee, the Great Lakes region, and others. Far southern MO is as similar to central MO as it is to Arkansas. Very different from Tennessee. Far southern MO sounds like Arkansas, but not always, and is still more Midwestern in execution.... mostly. It does get murky and can change from town to town.
Branson is so touristy and transient that it can seem more northern than Springfield at times. A ton of retirees from the north live in the area, and northerners vacation there a lot.
I live just close enough to shop with the locals, during off-season. It's just very diverse in a regional sense.
Well, most on here will disagree to an extent. THB is from southeast Missouri and says it's pretty southern in places like small towns in rural Cape Girardeau county.
There is nothing Midwestern about Poplar Bluff and Sikeston LOL.
My late uncle had a lake house in southern Missouri on Bull Shoals about 10 miles from Arkansas and there is no Midwestern influence there. All seemed upper south in the Ozarks way. Couldn't even really tell crossing into Arkansas. That's true about Branson, but the year around, locals that are natives to the Ozarks are not northern. Dialect, religion, ancestry all lines up with the south in the southern quarter of MO.
Missouri in general politically and overall lines up more with the south religion, abortion, and politically. Hell, Missouri is actually more to the right than most of the other southern states when it comes to gun laws and abortion with this current republican domination.
I just don't see anything Midwestern about the southern quarter of MO around highway 60 on down.
Honestly, I think the OP will be giving up quite a bit in terms of salaries and overall opportunities in southern MO compared to areas south of the Twin Cities. I would recommend the Rochester, MN area, plenty of job growth, and reasonable cost of living overall. The -30F is not reality in terms of air temperatures, I've lived in the upper Midwest for many years. In terms of wind chill, yes, you will have an occasional stretch of wind chill values of lower than -30F. Also, southern MO reservoirs have nothing in common with MN lakes, but I'm sure the OP is aware of that. Also, do not underestimate the extreme sun angle combined with heat and humidity of southern MO compared to MN.
Yes, -30 is a bit of hyperbole! It is extremely cold though. Full disclosure, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder this year, and the raynauds phenomenon that is a side effect makes it impossible for me to go enjoy the outdoors that this beautiful state offers in the winter. That's really a big part of what has us looking south. Even if I dress to the hilt my hands will still be purple and frozen if I take my dog for a walk around the block.
Rochester is a super nice town, I have spent quite a bit of time there with my mom at the Mayo. The Canadian Honker's coconut cake holds a special place in my heart. Unfortunately I think it's still a bit too chilled for me!
There is an excellent feature withing City-Data that gives a lot of information about particular communities. If you go to www.city-data.com the opening screen asks for the city you are interested in.
The issue of relative salaries is up to the OP to determine. Generalities do not apply here - they will be getting only one job a piece.
If fishing, particularly bass fishing is an important quality of life issue, Springfield Mo. is ground central. Much to the surprise of many outsiders, there is also good trout fishing in lake Taneycomo as well as Bennett Springs and Roaring River State Parks. There is lots of hiking available throughout Missouri. Even more in northern Arkansas (day trips or weekends).
The cost of living in Missouri is decidedly lower than the upper Midwest. It scores high in surveys of salary/cost of living ratios.
The difference in winter weather becomes more noticeable as you go further south in Missouri. I have spent rather a lot of time in the upper Midwest and the big difference in wintertime is the longer daylight hours. It is rare for snow to stay on the ground for more than a few days anywhere south of I-70, although it can happen. In exchange you get ice storms and summer humidity.
It is quite true that there is a historical connection between eastern Tennessee and the Ozarks. Our ancestors from the Appalachians were the only people on the planet who could come here, take a look at the endless hills and valleys with no minerals, no topsoil, no navigable rivers, and say "Yeah, this looks like a great place to farm."
I doubt you will find it difficult to fit into any of the cities you have mentioned. As one born and raised in Springfield, I can assure you that few people here find that being a native is something to be particularly proud of. Or ashamed of. Ozarkers are about the most matter-of-fact people anywhere.
Endless arguments about Missouri being Midwestern or Southern are a major feature of this particular forum. In real life no one here ever thinks about it.
There is an excellent feature withing City-Data that gives a lot of information about particular communities. If you go to www.city-data.com the opening screen asks for the city you are interested in.
The issue of relative salaries is up to the OP to determine. Generalities do not apply here - they will be getting only one job a piece.
If fishing, particularly bass fishing is an important quality of life issue, Springfield Mo. is ground central. Much to the surprise of many outsiders, there is also good trout fishing in lake Taneycomo as well as Bennett Springs and Roaring River State Parks. There is lots of hiking available throughout Missouri. Even more in northern Arkansas (day trips or weekends).
The cost of living in Missouri is decidedly lower than the upper Midwest. It scores high in surveys of salary/cost of living ratios.
The difference in winter weather becomes more noticeable as you go further south in Missouri. I have spent rather a lot of time in the upper Midwest and the big difference in wintertime is the longer daylight hours. It is rare for snow to stay on the ground for more than a few days anywhere south of I-70, although it can happen. In exchange you get ice storms and summer humidity.
It is quite true that there is a historical connection between eastern Tennessee and the Ozarks. Our ancestors from the Appalachians were the only people on the planet who could come here, take a look at the endless hills and valleys with no minerals, no topsoil, no navigable rivers, and say "Yeah, this looks like a great place to farm."
I doubt you will find it difficult to fit into any of the cities you have mentioned. As one born and raised in Springfield, I can assure you that few people here find that being a native is something to be particularly proud of. Or ashamed of. Ozarkers are about the most matter-of-fact people anywhere.
Endless arguments about Missouri being Midwestern or Southern are a major feature of this particular forum. In real life no one here ever thinks about it.
LOL so true. The argument should be what the percentage is. Overall in modern times the tilt is Midwestern but a sizeable chunk of the state is southern or is located in that transition zone. Overall the nod goes to lower Midwestern.
I will say from living in Missouri, I lived in a part the was lower Midwest, St. Louis county is in the Midwest. However I will say even in the St. Louis county region or being just outside St. Louis county like surrounding counties, the feel still feels different than other states that are considered in the lower Midwest. I don't know how to explain it but the southern influences still have a bearing on the entire state overall imo. Even though stl metro isn't southern of course, it still just has a different feel than other areas that are for sure in the lower Midwest.
Being most of the state was southern at one time possibly still has underlying effects on the feel of it, I don't know how to explain it.
I will say when you get out of st. louis county and head SW on I44 for example you do notice the gradual transition zone we talk about on here. When you get down to around Ft. Leonard Wood is when the southern influences really pick up.
I had a college professor for a summer course who was from Iowa. He said when you cross into Missouri you notice a change, demeanor and a bible belt feel to it that you do not feel in Iowa. Rural counties in MO have a large evangelical and southern Baptist presence. Even in northern MO those counties while they're not southern anymore, I think there is still some influences left.
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