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Old 10-22-2018, 11:19 PM
 
1,445 posts, read 948,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
I don't get the I-55 comment. I-55 links the Bootheel to Memphis, and in Eastern Missouri I-55 was built from South to North when it was being constructed. The Bootheel is far more southern culturally than anywhere else in Missouri. It is the only part of the state that grows Rice & Cotton, and it does quite a bit of both.

I do agree though that at a certain point, what state you are in matters. As Southern as the Bootheel is, it is still in a primarily Midwestern state & is subject to the politics & laws made in Jefferson City.
Except politically Missouri is a lot more southern and in fact, more extreme than most of the other southern states when it comes to firearms laws, gays and abortion for example. Missouri has some of the strictest abortion laws in the country and now has the most lax gun laws as well.

Including the border states, the south has only THREE states with permitless conceal carry and that is Missouri, Mississippi, and West Virginia. MS only the fully southern state to have permitless carry as WV and MO are both border states. It gained some traction in Alabama last year but it died in the house.

I live in Florida again and I'll say Missouri politically is a lot more southern than here in Florida as a whole.

Florida Republicans are a lot more moderate than Missouri ones. Rick Scott is a major RINO. I can't stand Scott. He's a phony and not pro gun.

Florida passed that anti gun bill this year making it a felony to have a bump stock or a binary trigger and red flag gun theft as well. Democrats in MO submitted the same bill as FL and the bill got killed. A bump stock, binary trigger ban and red flag gun theft laws would never pass in MO. In the mid 90s when the anti gun fever was high under Clinton the Missouri democrats couldn't get any sort of traction on a state level Assault Weapons ban. heck in 1992 the MO democrat controlled house passed concealed carry but didn't get voted on in the senate in time.

The Missouri bootheel is very southern though. More Delta, Deep south kind of southern and southern than any place in WV or KY.

MO is classified as a midwestern state in the census, but a chunk of the state is in the south and another chunk of it is in that transition zone. Also has a lot of southern Baptist and is in the bible belt and the southern dialect line also covers a chunk of MO which it doesn't in any of the midwestern states.

it still leans more Midwest as a whole but still a fair amount of southern left in it. Certainly more southern than here in FL. Only places in FL that are truly southern is rural places in the pan handle and north central FL.
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Illinois
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I don’t find the south to be magical. Like at all.

Whenever I’m in the south I’m overcome by poverty and lack of infrastructure compared to the north, but hey that’s just me.
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:26 AM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalstaffBlues View Post
I don’t find the south to be magical. Like at all.

Whenever I’m in the south I’m overcome by poverty and lack of infrastructure compared to the north, but hey that’s just me.
I see you are in Illinois.
Sometimes you just belong where you are.
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Old 10-24-2018, 05:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalstaffBlues View Post
I don’t find the south to be magical. Like at all.

Whenever I’m in the south I’m overcome by poverty and lack of infrastructure compared to the north, but hey that’s just me.
That is true in some places. Especially southern Missouri, Northern Arkansas, Eastern TN, those rugged areas like the Ozarks which were not that good for farming.

The major cities in southern states with better paying jobs are not really that culturally southern any more.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOforthewin View Post
That is true in some places. Especially southern Missouri, Northern Arkansas, Eastern TN, those rugged areas like the Ozarks which were not that good for farming.

The major cities in southern states with better paying jobs are not really that culturally southern any more.
No. These are not the “only place like that”.

I’m not talking about places like Appalachia or the Ozarks. I’m talking about the Deep South. It’s not magical at all.

The river delta of MS, AR, Louisiana are like that too. Poor poor and more poor. Many parts of Alabama and Georgia are that way too. Florida pan handle outside of the resorts. Western kentucky and West Tennessee. Memphis is the poorest big city in the country.

The south is not magical. Southern states often rank at or near the bottom of economic activity, education, healthcare access and other key indicators of quality of life.

Furthermore, Moforthewin for someone who claims to be a Missouri lifer and expert you sure have a crappy understanding of Missouri history. The parts of Missouri that were “The South” are the northern parts of the state along the Mississippi and Missouri River. The booneslick and the upper mississippi around Hannibal, Louisiana, and Canton.

Just because the Ozarks are home to lots of ignorant hillbillies who like flying the Confederate flag to **** off the “*******s” doesn’t make them the south.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Illinois
352 posts, read 154,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
I see you are in Illinois.
Sometimes you just belong where you are.
Oh shove it. I’m from the deep southern Illinois in the Shawnee forest. Don’t act like we’re so different.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Illinois
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If you want t o know where the "south" was in Missouri consult this map. Few areas of Southern Missouri were "the south." New Madrid and MS counties. St. Francois county had slaves to work the lead mines so I doubt that felt like the south.

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Old 10-26-2018, 05:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FalstaffBlues View Post
No. These are not the “only place like that”.

I’m not talking about places like Appalachia or the Ozarks. I’m talking about the Deep South. It’s not magical at all.

The river delta of MS, AR, Louisiana are like that too. Poor poor and more poor. Many parts of Alabama and Georgia are that way too. Florida pan handle outside of the resorts. Western kentucky and West Tennessee. Memphis is the poorest big city in the country.

The south is not magical. Southern states often rank at or near the bottom of economic activity, education, healthcare access and other key indicators of quality of life.

Furthermore, Moforthewin for someone who claims to be a Missouri lifer and expert you sure have a crappy understanding of Missouri history. The parts of Missouri that were “The South” are the northern parts of the state along the Mississippi and Missouri River. The booneslick and the upper mississippi around Hannibal, Louisiana, and Canton.

Just because the Ozarks are home to lots of ignorant hillbillies who like flying the Confederate flag to **** off the “*******s” doesn’t make them the south.
The Ozarks of northern Arkansas and a good chunk of southern Missouri are still considered southern though! It's part of the upper south.

Also, all because the Ozarks were not a hot bed for slavery doesn't mean it wasn't southern!

A lot of Confederate soldiers came from the Ozarks actually, Ripley, Butler, and Oregon counties were pro Confederate! Most of those men were in the Missouri State Guard and then Confederate Army once the Confederacy recognized Missouri and merged them. Howell County also had a number of Confederate soldiers too.

Chunks of Southwest MO were also pro confederate such as around Neosho and Newton. That's actually where the lawmakers met and signed the secession. The legitimacy of that is for another thread though.

Also, don't forget Southeast Missouri as well.

Once again trying to tie slavery with the civil war. All because the Ozarks did not have a lot of slaves or farms doesn't mean they're not southern. Most of the Ozarks people came from places like Eastern TN, WV, eastern KY. Look at religion and southern Baptist is the main one in southern Missouri and Northern Arkansas.

People in the Ozarks don't like to be controlled by the federal government. That was one of the reason why many of them were pro confederate when the union invaded.

Sections of the Ozarks were split though, but many like Ripley, Oregon, Howell, SWMO were Confederate.

You should have labeled your thread deep south then. There are differences between the two. When you mean south I was including the entire south such as Appalachia and the Ozarks as well as deep south.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:02 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
7,712 posts, read 4,200,975 times
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The map is interesting and I've used it a number of times in research. It sheds a little light on the ugly story of slavery in Missouri. Apart from the hemp plantations, Missouri slaveowners, especially those along the upper Mississippi, supplied slaves "down the river" once importation was prohibited. The cash crop was humans. The number of slaveowners was pretty small compared to southern states and the map shows why there was not a great deal of state-wide enthusiasm for fighting to defend the peculiar institution. The early battles in Missouri were more triggered by Federal heavy-handedness than the preservation of slavery. But, the extent of slave ownership before the Civil War doesn't magically equate to Southern-ness in the 21st century. There have been huge changes (swamps drained, for example) and major population shifts in the past 150 years. There are authentic southern cultural threads that are fading but still exist in some of the southernmost counties and in the Bootheel (Delta) counties. Elsewhere in the state, it comes off more like an affectation.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:59 PM
 
1,445 posts, read 948,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
The map is interesting and I've used it a number of times in research. It sheds a little light on the ugly story of slavery in Missouri. Apart from the hemp plantations, Missouri slaveowners, especially those along the upper Mississippi, supplied slaves "down the river" once importation was prohibited. The cash crop was humans. The number of slaveowners was pretty small compared to southern states and the map shows why there was not a great deal of state-wide enthusiasm for fighting to defend the peculiar institution. The early battles in Missouri were more triggered by Federal heavy-handedness than the preservation of slavery. But, the extent of slave ownership before the Civil War doesn't magically equate to Southern-ness in the 21st century. There have been huge changes (swamps drained, for example) and major population shifts in the past 150 years. There are authentic southern cultural threads that are fading but still exist in some of the southernmost counties and in the Bootheel (Delta) counties. Elsewhere in the state, it comes off more like an affectation.
The Ozarks from near highway 60 on southward is the south though. North of that line is where that blend comes from.

Even in modern day though some areas of Little Dixie still have fairly noticeable southern influences like around Lexington and Booneville.

Here in FL there isn't a lot of southern culture left. The southern half of the state never even really had anyone living in it until the mid 20th century. 100 years ago Miami was a fairly small town.

North FL still has the culture left in sections of it. These are the oldest areas of the state where people populated it and most of the slaves were located in. During the civil war almost all the people in FL lived in North FL. Orlando on south hardly anyone lived there. Was all woods and swamps.

Funny btw Missouri sent a lot more men to the confederate army than FL.

I think that is why the culture is so bland in FL too because hardly anyone is from here. The only place it doesn't seem bland is the Pan Handle and parts of north FL because those people and their ancestors have been there for generations and is the only part of the state really with any southern culture.
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