Is the ‘Midwesternness’ of Northern Missouri overstated? (Kansas City, St. Louis: houses, neighborhood)

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Spider-Kev

I live in Camden County, what would you classify where I am at as?
I'm new here so I can't rightly tell what you all would think of it.

That's the transition zone area of the state. It's not fully southern like West Plains in the Ozarks, but also not fully midwestern. A blend of both. Anything south of US 50 is transition zone generall.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by rrampage

The St. Louis area definitely has influence from I-80 northward. More of a northern feel in the area with the accents and culture. Feels like sort of a mix of Chicago/Detroit light combined with Indianapolis. This area sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the state, in my opinion.

St. Louis many say has more east coast feel to it. I think Baltimore and Cincinatti are good cities to compare it too. Baltimore in many ways too because both were considered border cities. Modern times both similar demographics except the surrounding areas of a lot more right wing than the Baltimore area. Even St. Louis county is more moderate in politics than around Baltimore.

Historically they could be siblings Baltimore and Stl. Stl has more in common with Cinci and Baltimore than Detoilet or Chicago. Being on the edges of the lower midwest also gives Stl a far different feel than Detroit and Chicago.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Missouri is the Upper South/Lower Midwest in culture overall. St. Louis continues its stagnation and decline, and the southwest area of the state is a faster growing area and more southern with the politicians to go along with that. Missouri has nothing in common with most of the Midwest that is located along I-80 northward.

Southwest Missouri like Springfield, Joplin, Branson, Table Rock along with Northwest Arkansas are all growing. I actually think over time parts of Southwest Missouri and Northern Arkansas will become less culturally southern possibly due to all the outsides from places like California moving to the Springfield Branson, and become a bit more moderate.

Springfield near the university narrowly lost another general assembly seat to democrats! That is unheard of. A lot of Commiefornia people are moving to southwest Missouri as well as the Columbia area too! My guess some of them taking teach jobs at the college. They move there because cheaper cost of living and lower taxes! And you have retired people moving to Southwest Missouri too by Table Rock, Northern AR.

has me a bit worried I hear these commiefornia people moving to southern Missouri will start messing the state up.

[SunGrins]

One of the more interesting and historically significant early trends in Missouri was the arrival of the German immigrants beginning around the 1830s. There were organized German resettlement societies that sent glowing accounts of Missouri back to Germany. Germany was in turmoil and there were a lot of people considering a move to America. If you look at the census records from 1830, 1840, 1850 in the counties west of St. Louis (Gasconade and surrounding counties) you will see the replacement going on. The previous Scots/Irish or English surnames from places like North Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee were replaced by German and some Slavic names in the Missouri Rhineland. Hermann was founded by the German Settlement Society of Philadelphia in 1837 in a very orderly and efficient way (as we might expect). The Hermann settlement included several satellite communities specifically laid out to be supportive of the main "colony" town. Daniel Boone brought his family to St. Charles County when it was still owned by Spain and settled near Femme Osage, a French village. Fifty years later it was heavily German. Dutzow was established by the Berlin Society in the 1830s. That region is where the major wine production developed and exists today.

In Perry County the German influx was related to religious freedom concerns in Germany and Prussia. Immigration was organized by Lutheran church leaders with members going to Perry County and St. Louis. Altenburg was established in 1839 as were other satellite communities (Frohna, Dresden, Wittenburg, etc.). The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod was established in Perry County and St. Louis now has about two-million members.

The Germans were anti-slavery and had modern social ideas and values for the day. They particularly valued education. They were well established before the Civil War and had influence and strong opinions on the secession issue. During the war they had well established Home Guard para-military units as well as contributing to the Union Army. My gr-granduncle served in the Home Guard in Gasconade County. Union General Franz Sigel was adept at recruiting German immigrants into the Union Army. He had been a military officer in Germany and settled in St. Louis as a professor and was the director of the St. Louis Public School system before the war. Some of my St. Louis German ancestors were drafted in 90-day Union Army service to protect the city during emergencies. German immigrants made up almost 8% of the state population by 1860. In comparison, the Irish were about 4%. (Curiously, my German and Irish St. Louis ancestors were both saloon owners and seemed to be mostly immune to military service or provost interference as long as they paid their income tax.)

My wife's ancestor was a farmer from Shannon County and was elected to the Missouri Legislature in 1860, just in time for the secession issue to come up. He was more pro-Missouri than pro-slavery and probably a Douglas Democrat. Born in North Carolina, he served in the Blackhawk War in Illinois. His son was part of the Mo. State Guard but refused to serve in either the Union or Confederate armies. The son was the County treasurer and hid the county money when Eminence was destroyed (burned) by guerrilla forces (two log buildings). They both survived the war and refused to sign the Ironclad Oath but were repeatedly elected to public office after the war. Eminence was reestablished in 1868 at its current location (it had been on the Current River before the war). https://www.krcu.org/education/2022-...y-old-eminence

[SnazzyB]

Originally Posted by Spider-Kev

I live in Camden County, what would you classify where I am at as?
I'm new here so I can't rightly tell what you all would think of it.

I just think of it as "The Lake" lol

[Spider-Kev]

Originally Posted by SnazzyB

I just think of it as "The Lake" lol

The lake is awesome. I live right on it.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Spider-Kev

I live in Camden County, what would you classify where I am at as?
I'm new here so I can't rightly tell what you all would think of it.

It is more similar to the South than the Midwest by far. The Lake of the Ozarks is a muddy reservoir, not a naturally occurring lake that would be more common in the Midwest. The climate is also more southern with very long hot/humid summers and very short winters.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by SunGrins

One of the more interesting and historically significant early trends in Missouri was the arrival of the German immigrants beginning around the 1830s. There were organized German resettlement societies that sent glowing accounts of Missouri back to Germany. Germany was in turmoil and there were a lot of people considering a move to America. If you look at the census records from 1830, 1840, 1850 in the counties west of St. Louis (Gasconade and surrounding counties) you will see the replacement going on. The previous Scots/Irish or English surnames from places like North Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee were replaced by German and some Slavic names in the Missouri Rhineland. Hermann was founded by the German Settlement Society of Philadelphia in 1837 in a very orderly and efficient way (as we might expect). The Hermann settlement included several satellite communities specifically laid out to be supportive of the main "colony" town. Daniel Boone brought his family to St. Charles County when it was still owned by Spain and settled near Femme Osage, a French village. Fifty years later it was heavily German. Dutzow was established by the Berlin Society in the 1830s. That region is where the major wine production developed and exists today.

In Perry County the German influx was related to religious freedom concerns in Germany and Prussia. Immigration was organized by Lutheran church leaders with members going to Perry County and St. Louis. Altenburg was established in 1839 as were other satellite communities (Frohna, Dresden, Wittenburg, etc.). The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod was established in Perry County and St. Louis now has about two-million members.

The Germans were anti-slavery and had modern social ideas and values for the day. They particularly valued education. They were well established before the Civil War and had influence and strong opinions on the secession issue. During the war they had well established Home Guard para-military units as well as contributing to the Union Army. My gr-granduncle served in the Home Guard in Gasconade County. Union General Franz Sigel was adept at recruiting German immigrants into the Union Army. He had been a military officer in Germany and settled in St. Louis as a professor and was the director of the St. Louis Public School system before the war. Some of my St. Louis German ancestors were drafted in 90-day Union Army service to protect the city during emergencies. German immigrants made up almost 8% of the state population by 1860. In comparison, the Irish were about 4%. (Curiously, my German and Irish St. Louis ancestors were both saloon owners and seemed to be mostly immune to military service or provost interference as long as they paid their income tax.)

My wife's ancestor was a farmer from Shannon County and was elected to the Missouri Legislature in 1860, just in time for the secession issue to come up. He was more pro-Missouri than pro-slavery and probably a Douglas Democrat. Born in North Carolina, he served in the Blackhawk War in Illinois. His son was part of the Mo. State Guard but refused to serve in either the Union or Confederate armies. The son was the County treasurer and hid the county money when Eminence was destroyed (burned) by guerrilla forces (two log buildings). They both survived the war and refused to sign the Ironclad Oath but were repeatedly elected to public office after the war. Eminence was reestablished in 1868 at its current location (it had been on the Current River before the war). https://www.krcu.org/education/2022-...y-old-eminence

Why is it Lutherans in Missouri are generally very conservative for example, but the Lutheran church up in MN is VERY liberal. Is it due to Missouri being much more conservative culturally while MN is an upper midwestern state?

Interesting about Shannon County. I think that explains a lot of the Ozarks in the civil war in Southern Missouri and Northern Arkansas. They really wanted to be left alone.

It seems post civil war though the Ozarks became more pro Confederate. Support the South versus the north. Today, the Ozarks are anti big government.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

It is more similar to the South than the Midwest by far. The Lake of the Ozarks is a muddy reservoir, not a naturally occurring lake that would be more common in the Midwest. The climate is also more southern with very long hot/humid summers and very short winters.

I think it's borderline overall. Certainly a textbook example of that transition zone. Blending. Well within that zone but it's not true southern like Table Rock is obviously down in the southern quarter of Missouri.

[Spider-Kev]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

It is more similar to the South than the Midwest by far. The Lake of the Ozarks is a muddy reservoir, not a naturally occurring lake that would be more common in the Midwest. The climate is also more southern with very long hot/humid summers and very short winters.

This winter lasted a bit too long for me.
It still gets chilly at night and in the early morning.
Thankfully, we seem to be out of winter now, at least until November!