Why is Missouri so southern? (St. Louis, Cape Girardeau: high school, restaurants, military)

[NativeMissourian]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Nothing north of US 60? Really

Disagree

the transition zone starts little ways north in the Ozarks like on the map I show. In Southeast Missouri US 60 is far south too, so that means then I guess Sikeston barely is even southern at all, and Cape which is 30 miles north is not southern at all?

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by NativeMissourian

Dont forget the state of TN also was divided to an extent as well. the Eastern half of TN was pro union, but when they were going to attempt to break away from the rest of the state the COnfederate army put a stop to it along with arresting many as well. The state of TN fell pretty fast to the union, and it was also the first to be readmitted back into the Union. Infact its residents even voted at first against having a constitutional convention to meet on secession.

My guess is if Missouri did have an undisputed secession that we would be called a Confederate state, but divided on the issue. Even the state of TN website calls TN divided.

Tennessee's Union supporters were far outnumbered by Confederate ones, though. THat is the key difference. The state of Tennessee was more for secession than it was against it. Tennessee is as undisputedly southern as Arkansas, Virginia, and North Carolina. It's not the same thing as Missouri by a long shot.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by NativeMissourian

the transition zone starts little ways north in the Ozarks like on the map I show. In Southeast Missouri US 60 is far south too, so that means then I guess Sikeston barely is even southern at all, and Cape which is 30 miles north is not southern at all?

I think a better map is the map of the Southern American English. Cape Girardeau, Springfield, and Joplin, are all quasi-Southern. I think this person didn't literally mean U.S. 60...but U.S. 60 is a fairly good estimate of the border of the transition zone to the south.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by NativeMissourian

I would say Southern influence is the strongest in Missouri today compared to Maryland.

However Maryland at the breakout of the civil war had a lot of freemen compared to Missouri's. Maryland was vastly changing when the civil war brokeout while the number of slaves were dwindling. While at the breakouot of the civil war it was mainly St. Louis, and the river communities like St. Gen, Perryville that were changing and just happend to be the most pro union area of the state.

Delaware has hardly any southern in it.

About Lincoln jailing the Maryland lawmakers, I don't think it would have mattered because almost all historians have said that they would not have had enough votes to been able to seceede.

There is no place in Maryland that has the influence of the Missouri bootheel. That is King Cotton.

Even northern virginia has totally changed as well.

Good Lord.....I know onegoal has been banned yet again, but let me say this in response to the bolded parts of this quote;
First of all, the communities of Ste Gen and Perry ville have never been southern, and never are going to be southern.
That particular comment doesnt even make any sense.
To say anything else is just plain crazy, and revisionist history at its worst.
Onegoal, I showed you beyond the shadow of a doubt in another thread that cotton has not been the primary crop in the bootheel since the 60s, so lay off the "King Cotton" nonsense already.

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

Good Lord.....I know onegoal has been banned yet again, but let me say this in response to the bolded parts of this quote;
First of all, the communities of Ste Gen and Perry ville have never been southern, and never are going to be southern.
That particular comment doesnt even make any sense.
To say anything else is just plain crazy, and revisionist history at its worst.
Onegoal, I showed you beyond the shadow of a doubt in another thread that cotton has not been the primary crop in the bootheel since the 60s, so lay off the "King Cotton" nonsense already.

He just can't help himself

[Matthew Hall]

why is minnesota so northern? Places are as they.

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Northern Missouri doesn't feel Southern to me at all. In fact, nothing north of U.S. 60 does to me.

Not too much is 100% southern north of U.S. 60. Cape Girardeau & Jackson are as far north as I'd go in my part of the state (along the river). You can get southern food like grits etc... and you hear some southern accents but it's not definitely one way or the other and certainly not 100% southern.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by Matthew Hall

why is minnesota so northern? Places are as they.

That question is in a completely different context than this one. Minnesota is undebatably northern, whereas Missouri is hardly ever considered southern.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by GunnerTHB

Not too much is 100% southern north of U.S. 60. Cape Girardeau & Jackson are as far north as I'd go in my part of the state (along the river). You can get southern food like grits etc... and you hear some southern accents but it's not definitely one way or the other and certainly not 100% southern.

Southern food and grits are not bound to the south anymore...haven't been for a long time. I agree btw with your assessment...just experienced it today...in Paducah, kentucky, it's southern like Sikeston, Missouri. When you cross the Ohio River and go about 50 miles to the north in Illinois, you'd have no idea how close to the south you were. Same thing with Sikeston, Missouri and southern Cape Girardeau.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

That question is in a completely different context than this one. Minnesota is undebatably northern, whereas Missouri is hardly ever considered southern.

After living in the north the first thing I think of when I visit Missouri is how far south in latitude its location is just based on the winter solar declination angle of the sun.