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Old 06-10-2012, 10:36 PM
 
Location: IN
21,207 posts, read 36,824,530 times
Reputation: 13755

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Please.
You got busted, dont backpeddle.
What?
I didn't ever live in Jefferson County, KY (Louisville), but on the other side of the river in Clark County, IN.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:39 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,093 posts, read 2,989,153 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach.USCG View Post
I think its pretty safe to say that everything below Advance is southern. I'm from Bernie, born and raised, I don't think Kennett is any more southern than the rest of the bootheel. I've been in the deep south before and had a harder time finding real southern food than you would in Dexter, MO. Dexter has Fiddlers fish house, Hickory Log, Dexter BBQ, Dexter Queen. Even the bootheel's gas stations sell fried chicken, okra, livers, pulled pork sandwiches etc. For how small of a town Dexter is the southern influence is very evident in the aspect of food. In Bernie which is even smaller, the only food you can even find is southern. In the bootheel, even big chain restaurants have sweet tea, because so many people ask for it! Taco Bell in Dexter has sweet tea for cryin out loud!!!! Yes, Taco Bell! That's unheard of in the midwest! I dont understand how anyone who has visited or lived in the bootheel can say its not southern. When I say the bootheel I mean anything below Stoddard County, with a few slightly more northern exceptions.
No one here is arguing the fact that the bootheel is southern. There are several communities into central and western Cape County that are southern as well but you are right when you say south of Advance is pretty much decidedly southern. Sweet Tea has extended well beyond the south however. The same goes for BBQ.

My dad spent part of his childhood on a plantation between Bernie and Essex. It's definitely southern down there. Once you go north of Cape the midwestern culture really starts to pick up.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:32 PM
 
4 posts, read 3,365 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
My perspective is that Missouri is a Midwestern state with Southern influences. Prior to the Civil War, it probably would've been the opposite way around. One thing that is certainly true is that my city voted for lincoln in the 1861 election, and Missouri voted for Douglas...only other state to do so was a northern state, New Jersey. Just as the Upper Midwest has Canadian influences, the Southern Midwest has southern influences. Having driven all over the south, I would have to say the northern half of the state is solidly Midwestern, the southern half is part southern, part transition between the south and Midwest. St. Louis, St. Joseph, KC, Jeff City, and Columbia are all the Midwest. Cities in the Midwest like Joplin, Springfield, Wichita, Evansville, Cape Girardeau, and Carbondale are all right on the dividing line between south and Midwest.
Pretty much agree and that map I made once pretty much has the dixie line right on the edges like that.

However the southern half of Missouri the dixie line is not straight once you get into south central MO the southerness spikes north more as the University of PA and other dialect maps show in south central MO like just east of Lebenon.

The other 25 percent of southern Missouri I would say is like southern Indiana and southern IL.

SW MO and NW AR does have a different feel. I used to be down in Bull Shoals area of far southern Missouri often and it's southern and is not midwestern as it's 5 miles from the AR border. In general though in the Ozarks of northern Arkansas and far southern Missouri it's south, but the southerness is nowhere near as strong as the Mississippi Delta of MS, AR, or TN cotton areas, or like Alabama for example. Those areas give off a strong Dixie presence, while northern AR and Southern MO Ozarks seem more hickish, upper south. Doesn't mean it's not the south and southern, it just means the southern tendencies are not as bold as in the heart of Dixie like the deep south for example. On a gun board Im on a poster lives in Northern Arkansas Ozarks and he's lived in Alabama too and says the Dixie presence in nothern Arkansas is nothing to the extend of AL.

As for weather, actually far SW MO is the warmest area of the state. the NWS new averages are out and Seneca MO is the warmest. By very early feb the average high is already 50 degrees! Joplin also is quite mild winters as are other towns in far SW MO have shorter, and milder winters. Due to their locations they also can get some reall hot summers, and as we know that area of the state is prone to a lot of severe weather as their around the heart of tornado alley.

Overall St. Louisan I've mostly agreed with your opinions. How MO is 50 percent midwestern, 25 percent dixie and 25 percent of a transition/mix of midwest and the south. US 50 like you said on down to near US 60 is transition like southern Indaina, IL then maybe 20 or so miles from US 60 on south to the AR border is the south.

As for the Douglas vote he BARLY had enough votes. He edged out conditional Unionist bell by 500 votes! Kinda like how we saw in 1992 how Perot cost Bush the election by splitting the vote.

[url=http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=1860&fips=29&f=0&off=0&elect=0]1860 Presidential General Election Results - Missouri[/url]

From reading news articles from the past though it seems up until the 1960s most of the press, ect called Missouri a border state along with the other border southern/northern states. The last 50 or so years the term Midwest is almost always used now.

I mean there is no doubt though the last 60 or so years Missouri has lost more southerness. There is a univ of Arkansas report done in the early 60s about the debate of MO being midwest or South and comments about MO has been becoming more midwestern. Now Im not saying 60 years ago MO was a southern state lol, just saying its influences were getting less and less. Harry Truman the press noted he had a upland south accent. However he was born in 1884 when that area of the state had many influences from the south.

If this were 1870 I doubt we would be having this debate right now.

Another thing I have read though in a few articles is many left the state bcause of the Drake Constitution. Since Confederate veterans couldn't vote, practice law, Medicine ect in the state they moved. Of course 1877 got rid of that, but still MO lost a lot of them.

Another thing I've mentioned is Oklahoma. Its possible a number of Missourian's moved to Oklahoma during the late 1800s, early 1900s when it was being settled. It's possible many of them from the little Dixie area moved to Oklahoma were it's warmer, less worn out land.

Politically Missouri however out of all the Midwestern states still has southern leanings/ southern mindset that is not seen in IL,OH for example. For example it's basically Missouri is the reason why gay marriage is such a hot topic because we were the first state to vote on it between a man and a woman in 2004. 71 percent voted for it in MO. NC passed it recently but nowhere near the huge margin MO did.

Out of all the classified Midwestern states today though Missouri has the most southern influenced out of them all, and in some locations are totally and geographically southern. Southern IL only around Cairo, and far southern parts of IN in some areas are totally southern, but it's small amount compared to Missouris. Missouri is a midwest state, but parts of the state are in the south.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,064 posts, read 28,312,124 times
Reputation: 3770
^Now this is onegoal.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,325,295 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettHullMyIdol View Post
Pretty much agree and that map I made once pretty much has the dixie line right on the edges like that.

However the southern half of Missouri the dixie line is not straight once you get into south central MO the southerness spikes north more as the University of PA and other dialect maps show in south central MO like just east of Lebenon.

The other 25 percent of southern Missouri I would say is like southern Indiana and southern IL.

SW MO and NW AR does have a different feel. I used to be down in Bull Shoals area of far southern Missouri often and it's southern and is not midwestern as it's 5 miles from the AR border. In general though in the Ozarks of northern Arkansas and far southern Missouri it's south, but the southerness is nowhere near as strong as the Mississippi Delta of MS, AR, or TN cotton areas, or like Alabama for example. Those areas give off a strong Dixie presence, while northern AR and Southern MO Ozarks seem more hickish, upper south. Doesn't mean it's not the south and southern, it just means the southern tendencies are not as bold as in the heart of Dixie like the deep south for example. On a gun board Im on a poster lives in Northern Arkansas Ozarks and he's lived in Alabama too and says the Dixie presence in nothern Arkansas is nothing to the extend of AL.

As for weather, actually far SW MO is the warmest area of the state. the NWS new averages are out and Seneca MO is the warmest. By very early feb the average high is already 50 degrees! Joplin also is quite mild winters as are other towns in far SW MO have shorter, and milder winters. Due to their locations they also can get some reall hot summers, and as we know that area of the state is prone to a lot of severe weather as their around the heart of tornado alley.

Overall St. Louisan I've mostly agreed with your opinions. How MO is 50 percent midwestern, 25 percent dixie and 25 percent of a transition/mix of midwest and the south. US 50 like you said on down to near US 60 is transition like southern Indaina, IL then maybe 20 or so miles from US 60 on south to the AR border is the south.

As for the Douglas vote he BARLY had enough votes. He edged out conditional Unionist bell by 500 votes! Kinda like how we saw in 1992 how Perot cost Bush the election by splitting the vote.

1860 Presidential General Election Results - Missouri

From reading news articles from the past though it seems up until the 1960s most of the press, ect called Missouri a border state along with the other border southern/northern states. The last 50 or so years the term Midwest is almost always used now.

I mean there is no doubt though the last 60 or so years Missouri has lost more southerness. There is a univ of Arkansas report done in the early 60s about the debate of MO being midwest or South and comments about MO has been becoming more midwestern. Now Im not saying 60 years ago MO was a southern state lol, just saying its influences were getting less and less. Harry Truman the press noted he had a upland south accent. However he was born in 1884 when that area of the state had many influences from the south.

If this were 1870 I doubt we would be having this debate right now.

Another thing I have read though in a few articles is many left the state bcause of the Drake Constitution. Since Confederate veterans couldn't vote, practice law, Medicine ect in the state they moved. Of course 1877 got rid of that, but still MO lost a lot of them.

Another thing I've mentioned is Oklahoma. Its possible a number of Missourian's moved to Oklahoma during the late 1800s, early 1900s when it was being settled. It's possible many of them from the little Dixie area moved to Oklahoma were it's warmer, less worn out land.

Politically Missouri however out of all the Midwestern states still has southern leanings/ southern mindset that is not seen in IL,OH for example. For example it's basically Missouri is the reason why gay marriage is such a hot topic because we were the first state to vote on it between a man and a woman in 2004. 71 percent voted for it in MO. NC passed it recently but nowhere near the huge margin MO did.

Out of all the classified Midwestern states today though Missouri has the most southern influenced out of them all, and in some locations are totally and geographically southern. Southern IL only around Cairo, and far southern parts of IN in some areas are totally southern, but it's small amount compared to Missouris. Missouri is a midwest state, but parts of the state are in the south.
Harry Truman did NOT have an upland South accent. From all the documentary footage I've seen of him, he had a very flat accent. He was raised in Independence, which is far outside of the reach of the southern accent. Other than that, I agree with this post.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:35 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,236 posts, read 5,604,873 times
Reputation: 4235
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
The only cities in Missouri that are southern through and through would be Kennett, Caruthersville, Poplar Bluff, Dexter, Sikeston, Charleston, West Plains and Branson. You can argue for Cape Girardeau, Jackson, Joplin and Springfield.
I've spent a bit of time recently in both Cape and Sikeston. Sikeston, to me, totally has a southern vibe, while Cape, not so much. To an outsider (I admit it KSHE Girl) it seems like those two communities are quite different despite being only 30 miles or so apart.

I also just spent several days in Springfield. It does have somewhat of a southern vibe and feel to me, but not as much as Sikeston.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 32,349,804 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
I've spent a bit of time recently in both Cape and Sikeston. Sikeston, to me, totally has a southern vibe, while Cape, not so much. To an outsider (I admit it KSHE Girl) it seems like those two communities are quite different despite being only 30 miles or so apart.

I also just spent several days in Springfield. It does have somewhat of a southern vibe and feel to me, but not as much as Sikeston.
I knew you werent a native.
There is a very sharp shift from southern to Midwestern in the 30 miles between Cape and Old Appleton.
I've never seen the shift come that quickly anywhere else in the US.
I've always been fascinated by it, and I grew up seeing it.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
8,144 posts, read 17,605,416 times
Reputation: 7354
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
I knew you werent a native.
There is a very sharp shift from southern to Midwestern in the 30 miles between Cape and Old Appleton.
I've never seen the shift come that quickly anywhere else in the US.
I've always been fascinated by it, and I grew up seeing it.
What is your opinion on Jackson, Missouri? Is this more southern or midwestern?

I have to say after driving from Jack's Fork back to Salem on Sunday, I too am quite fascinated by this very abrupt change of look/feel in Missouri.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 32,349,804 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
What is your opinion on Jackson, Missouri? Is this more southern or midwestern?

I have to say after driving from Jack's Fork back to Salem on Sunday, I too am quite fascinated by this very abrupt change of look/feel in Missouri.
Jackson is southern.
You know, its funny, one cant really tell the difference by how the area looks, its more of a feel.
One has to spend time in the area, eat in the restaurants, shop in the stores.
Interact with the locals, you know?
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:31 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,093 posts, read 2,989,153 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
I knew you werent a native.
There is a very sharp shift from southern to Midwestern in the 30 miles between Cape and Old Appleton.
I've never seen the shift come that quickly anywhere else in the US.
I've always been fascinated by it, and I grew up seeing it.
This is so true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Jackson is southern.
You know, its funny, one cant really tell the difference by how the area looks, its more of a feel.
One has to spend time in the area, eat in the restaurants, shop in the stores.
Interact with the locals, you know?
I used to think that Cape was more southern culturally than Jackson. (I even went to high school in Jackson and still felt that way) The past couple of years has started to reverse that opinion however. I guess what was going through my head was that maybe it was just a more rural culture and not necessarily a southern one. I've come to realize it's actually both compared to Cape.

I'm actually kind of suprised you said Jackson was southern. I do agree with you, I've just always been hesitant to come to that opinion 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
I've spent a bit of time recently in both Cape and Sikeston. Sikeston, to me, totally has a southern vibe, while Cape, not so much. To an outsider (I admit it KSHE Girl) it seems like those two communities are quite different despite being only 30 miles or so apart.

I also just spent several days in Springfield. It does have somewhat of a southern vibe and feel to me, but not as much as Sikeston.
I agree that Cape and Sikeston aren't exactly alike, but if you compared Cape & Sikeston vs. Cape & Perryville, which is the same distance north of Cape, it makes Cape and Sikeston look pretty similar, especially demographically.
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