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Old 05-18-2014, 02:37 PM
 
4 posts, read 4,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
Jackson is southern.
You know, its funny, one cant really tell the difference by how the area looks, its more of a feel.
One has to spend time in the area, eat in the restaurants, shop in the stores.
Interact with the locals, you know?

In my opinion, the Jackson area is considerably more Midwestern, maybe even more so than Cape. My husband was raised in Jackson while I am from Mississippi County, and I was startled at how culturally different that area is given how close it is geographically. To me, it is far too German/Lutheran/Catholic/"mountainous" to be Southern...or, at least, to be like my Delta based view of what qualifies as Southern. They even have food I had never heard of when I was growing up, (e.g. kettle beef). The food served at holidays and various baby/bridal showers is also very different to what I was accustomed to, coming from MissCo. My mother in law, who was also raised in Jackson, had to consult a friend from further down I-55 to figure out what to wear to my hometown bridal shower---the friend vetoed her original outfit choice and was informed her, "That is the South! You can't wear that!"

However, I don't think Benton Hill boundary is a rigid line of demarcation between what is Upper South vs Lower Midwest. If anything, it is a somewhat jagged line that includes/excludes areas based on some cultural aspects stemming from the ethnic backgrounds of those who settled the region. For example, I find the northern parts of Scott County and Stoddard County to be very different from the southern parts of Scott County and Stoddard County....this is no doubt due to the German influences.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:54 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomewhereSoutheast View Post
In my opinion, the Jackson area is considerably more Midwestern, maybe even more so than Cape. My husband was raised in Jackson while I am from Mississippi County, and I was startled at how culturally different that area is given how close it is geographically. To me, it is far too German/Lutheran/Catholic/"mountainous" to be Southern...or, at least, to be like my Delta based view of what qualifies as Southern. They even have food I had never heard of when I was growing up, (e.g. kettle beef). The food served at holidays and various baby/bridal showers is also very different to what I was accustomed to, coming from MissCo. My mother in law, who was also raised in Jackson, had to consult a friend from further down I-55 to figure out what to wear to my hometown bridal shower---the friend vetoed her original outfit choice and was informed her, "That is the South! You can't wear that!"

However, I don't think Benton Hill boundary is a rigid line of demarcation between what is Upper South vs Lower Midwest. If anything, it is a somewhat jagged line that includes/excludes areas based on some cultural aspects stemming from the ethnic backgrounds of those who settled the region. For example, I find the northern parts of Scott County and Stoddard County to be very different from the southern parts of Scott County and Stoddard County....this is no doubt due to the German influences.
Good points. I grew up in a part of Cape County that was primarily Scotch-Irish and the difference is very noticeable if you have lived in the area for a length of time. It's pretty hilly though.

Absolutely agree on the northern Scott & Stoddard County comments.
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
Well I'll take your word for it. The 4 or 5 people I know from the Evansville area aren't southern at all. They are younger though so maybe thats why?

Come to think of it, I saw a news report from a county in southern Indiana about a crime and the sheriff definitely had a southern accent. When they said Indiana I couldn't believe it.
Anything within 50 miles of the Ohio River and the Kentucky border is southern. Perhaps this wasn't true 50 years ago, but it is now. The mainstreaming and popularity of southern pop culture in recent decades, has a lot to do with it.
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
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^Interesting post. I particularly like the last paragraph.

I question that 50% of Missouri is totally Midwestern though, especially if you mean the northern half. A couple reasons why include the fact that almost the entire state, including the far north, reports Southern Baptist as the largest religious group. No other Midwestern state is like that. Another reason is because most of the slavery and plantations in the state were actually in the northern half of the state along, largely centered long the Missouri River, but also north of it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-by-County.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Dixie_(Missouri)

Missouri

All that said, this is an interesting thread, but I wish people would better describe what makes them think certain areas are Southern vs Midwestern.

Also, and I may have asked this before, but I'm curious if people would be more likely to consider Missouri an overall Southern state if it weren't for Kansas City and St. Louis. Let's say you leave the rest of Missouri the same, but put Louisville and Lexington in the place of Kansas City and St. Louis - would Kansas City be considered as Southern as Kentucky in that scenario?
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post

Also, and I may have asked this before, but I'm curious if people would be more likely to consider Missouri an overall Southern state if it weren't for Kansas City and St. Louis. Let's say you leave the rest of Missouri the same, but put Louisville and Lexington in the place of Kansas City and St. Louis - would Kansas City be considered as Southern as Kentucky in that scenario?
I don't think so. Even Springfield doesn't seem completely southern to me. Viewing it from a southern perspective, it always seemed very different. Very midwestern. After living up north, I did notice some southern traits, but not fully. Still seemed midwestern enough. Even areas south of 60 have midwestern traits, and there's an odd mix of accents there that I find fascinating from people who have lived there their whole lives.
There's also a strong southern influence in and around KC and St. Louis because they have historically drawn fairly heavily from the south.
Because of it's history, Missouri is a mixed bag culturally and the debate will likely never be settled.
I have noticed some interesting similarities between Kentucky and Missouri, mostly because of the hilly regions. Northern Missouri and it's cities are a bit different than anything in Kentucky.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:03 AM
 
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I think there's a lot of people that consider Missouri to be a "Southern" state because of it's Southern setllers and the civil war. If you take the Civil War out of the equation and look at Missouri on the map, there is no way you can say it's a Southern state. It's pretty much smack dab in the middle of the country. You can't get much more "central" than Missouri. If the US Capital was to be moved to a more centrally located city. Kansas City would be an almost obvious choice for the new US Capital.

If, for example, Nebraska had been settled mostly by Southerners, and Nebraska had all the characteristics of the Southern states, would Nebraska be considered part of "The South"? I doubt it. So why should Missouri be considered as part of "The South"?

In the year of 2014, Missouri has a lot of Southern descendants living within it's borders, but Missouri, landwise, is solidly in the Midwest.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:44 PM
 
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Springfield is still more southern than Midwestern though. It's similar to Evansville, IN. Literally right on the line.

Brad Pitt is from Springfield and he says the Mason Dixon Line literally runs right though Springfield and I agree with him. I was down there last year and heard some southern accents, and the overall feel just didn't feel very Midwestern. It's not completely southern though but nearly right on the dividing line. I certainly would not call it a Midwest city, it's not completely a southern city as well though but leans more southern than Midwestern.

About hwy 60 anything around it and also south of it is pretty southern.

There is nothing Midwestern about Table Rock Lake area and Branson, Kimberling City. I was down there last year in early May. Most of the locals had the southern, Upper Southish accent and it was quite noticeable everywhere I went and this was a couple weeks before season starts so there wasn't as much outside influence to water it down.

To consider places around Table Rock and Branson Midwestern is hilarious. My aunt also used to have a lake house on Bull Shoals near hwy 160 in Missouri and it was NOT Midwestern down there.

Most people around Branson would laugh at you if you called it the Midwest. Dialect, ancestry, religion, politics, culture south of hwy 60 in Missouri is not Midwestern.

The transition zone starts at around hwy 50 in Missouri and gradually becomes more southern the more south you go. Except far eastern MO where it goes from Midwest to southern pretty quickly around Cape Girardeau with very little transition zone.

As for someone else saying St. Louis has Southern influence, it doesn't in modern times!! Now if you're talking the entire metro area MSA, maybe the southern parts of it as it I mean like far SW parts of Franklin County, and rural South Jefferson County, and I'm talking they're very faint. Maybe about 10 percent southern influence. Rural Jefferson county there are some faint hints of it and it's in the beginings of that transition zone but I do notice a few hints. There are more protestant and Baptist Churches in Jefferson County for example than Stl county. I had a professor from Nashville, TN who lives in rural Jefferson County and she agrees it's Midwestern, but that she too notices a few hints of that transition zone she told me which is why she moved there.

When you get around Farmington you notice the southern characteristics start to pick up more though. I was down there last summer and it was amazing the totally different feel Farmington, and Park Hills has and then drive over to Ste Gen such a short distance had a totally different feel. Ste Gen felt totally Midwestern to me while St. Francois county had that mixed bag feel and Ozark influence.

A good drive in Missouri is to drive Highway 44 SW out of St. Louis county. When you leave St. Louis county you gradually see a transition from the Midwest to the South. When you leave Rolla the southern influence really picks up, but not until you're south of Springfield you're basically in the south then and might as well be part of Arkansas.

Most agree on here Missouri is 50 percent Midwestern, 25 percent a transition zone like Southern IN and southern IL (Midwest and South mix) and 25 percent Southern/Dixie. It makes the state as a whole Midwestern, BUT parts of Missouri geographically and culturally are still part of the south.

I agree Missouri is a Midwestern state, but won't deny parts of the state are in the south.

Now in Modern times if places around Hannibal, Columbia, Marshall and Moberly resembled Scott County Missouri, Stoddard County, Stone County, Butler or Howell County then I would say Missouri would be a Southern State today but it doesn't!

In modern day Missouri there are only about 20 counties or so that are truly southern and those are all bordering other southern states of AR, TN, and Ky or counties near those counties bordering them. The rest of those counties in the southern half of Missouri are mostly just transition zones like southern Illinois and Southern Indiana.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:57 PM
 
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I grew up in the Ark-La-Tex. I've lived in Dallas, Little Rock, and Columbia, SC in the South. I've lived in Omaha and St Louis in the Mid-West. I'm career National Guard. I started out in the Arkansas National Guard in Little Rock and I'm currently in the Iowa National Guard in Des Moines. I recently moved from Omaha back to Arkansas. I lived in Omaha for several years so my wife could have a transplant surgery. I'm still in the Iowa National Guard for career and personal reasons. I drive from the Arkansas/Missouri to Missouri/Iowa border once a month for drill. From my many experiences in the South and Mid-West, I'd classify Missouri as Mid-West.

GENERALLY speaking, the bottom 1/3 of Missouri is loosely Southern and the top 2/3 is loosely Mid-West. I've heard people from Joplin and Poplar Bluff sound like they were from Texas. I've driven by a music store in Southern Missouri called "Crazy Mule Music" with banjos in the windows. The store wasn't in Branson for the record. The South doesn't abruptly end when you cross the Missouri state line.

The Mid-West influence in the upper 2/3 outweighs the Southern influence in the lower 1/3, making Missouri a Mid-West state.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane C View Post
I grew up in the Ark-La-Tex. I've lived in Dallas, Little Rock, and Columbia, SC in the South. I've lived in Omaha and St Louis in the Mid-West. I'm career National Guard. I started out in the Arkansas National Guard in Little Rock and I'm currently in the Iowa National Guard in Des Moines. I recently moved from Omaha back to Arkansas. I lived in Omaha for several years so my wife could have a transplant surgery. I'm still in the Iowa National Guard for career and personal reasons. I drive from the Arkansas/Missouri to Missouri/Iowa border once a month for drill. From my many experiences in the South and Mid-West, I'd classify Missouri as Mid-West.

GENERALLY speaking, the bottom 1/3 of Missouri is loosely Southern and the top 2/3 is loosely Mid-West. I've heard people from Joplin and Poplar Bluff sound like they were from Texas. I've driven by a music store in Southern Missouri called "Crazy Mule Music" with banjos in the windows. The store wasn't in Branson for the record. The South doesn't abruptly end when you cross the Missouri state line.

The Mid-West influence in the upper 2/3 outweighs the Southern influence in the lower 1/3, making Missouri a Mid-West state.
I would say it's 25 percent southern, 25 percent mix of Midwest south blend like Southern IN and IL are and 50 Midwestern.

US 50 is the dividing line of where the transition zone starts and once you get about 15 miles north of highway 60 it's all southern on southward. Even just north of US 50 there are places with southern influences in pockets such as places around Booneville and Lexington still have noticeable southern influences although the Midwestern ones out weigh the southern once but it's still like a 40-60 divide.

The southern 25 percent of Missouri is southern and virtually no Midwest influence.

Joplin accent doesn't surprise me sounding a bit like some areas of Texas as it's in an area that draws influences from the south and the great plains as well.

Poplar Bluff is very southern though! Nothing great plains or Midwestern about that town or county it's in. That is one of the most southern areas of Missouri.

I'd say the hard south line varies, but ends about 50 miles into Missouri, north of Arkansas and north of that line is then a transition zone that is a blend of both cultures that gets more Midwestern the more north you go.

While Missouri overall is more of a Midwestern state today, a lot of it's traits align with the south more than the Midwest including religion (heavy southern Baptist presence), politics, and the southern accent line as of the 1997 Univ of PA study covers about 25-30 percent of the state. No other Midwestern state has these traits or is even close to it. It's the only Midwestern state where a sizeable chunk of the state is located in the south. You can say Oklahoma too but many lump that in the south or great plains so I'm not including them.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northbound74 View Post
I don't think so. Even Springfield doesn't seem completely southern to me. Viewing it from a southern perspective, it always seemed very different. Very midwestern. After living up north, I did notice some southern traits, but not fully. Still seemed midwestern enough. Even areas south of 60 have midwestern traits, and there's an odd mix of accents there that I find fascinating from people who have lived there their whole lives.
There's also a strong southern influence in and around KC and St. Louis because they have historically drawn fairly heavily from the south.
Because of it's history, Missouri is a mixed bag culturally and the debate will likely never be settled.
I have noticed some interesting similarities between Kentucky and Missouri, mostly because of the hilly regions. Northern Missouri and it's cities are a bit different than anything in Kentucky.
I disagree about that. Anything around highway 60 is southern in MO. There virtually is nothing Midwestern about those areas.

Springfield is borderline. It leans southern if I could only classify it as one. Being I'm from St. Louis which is Midwestern with hardly any southern influences, they're noticeable in Springfield. Also note Springfield has a lot of outside influences due to the large university.

St. Louis I will say maybe has 10 percent southern influences left. Some small traces I can't really explain, but to compare them to Springfield Missouri is simply laughable though. Springfield has much much more southern influences than St. Louis or Kansas City has. Religion, and the southern accent line according to the Univ of PA study covers Springfield, it doesn't cover St. Louis. Granted that dialect study was in 1997 though and the accents have since faded more though.

I'm from St. Louis and to compare the southern influences to Springfield that is in far southern Missouri is pretty funny. Dialect, culture, and religion, Springfield area is totally different than St. Louis. Also You see people flying the Battle flag on their trucks down there, and flying it, rarely ever see that in St. Louis county except for a couple times in my 13 years living there. There is one guy in South St. Louis county that flies the naval jack on a flag poll in their backyard (video on youtube) but other than that I don't know of any other ones.

Last time I was in far southern MO was 2013 Table Rock, Branson right before season began. I noticed virtually nothing Midwestern about that area of the state. Comparing it to St. Louis it might as well been a different country.
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