Obama vs. McCain (Kansas City, Clinton, Miller: taxes, costs, stores)

[ShadowCaver]

Originally Posted by northbound74

I'd have to add that liberals, on the other end of the spectrum are much the same towards independent thinkers.
I do get irritated with conservatives that try to use legislation to further their agenda. At that point, we become hypocrites.
I'm leaning more and more libertarian, because they seem to be more conservative that conservatives are. There would only be a couple of issues that I would have troubles with.

My own political belief follows more closely to what you are indicating there: libertarian Republican [LR]. Give me a candidate that demonstrates integrity, honesty, is fiscally conservative & responsible, and not only speaks of but acts towards a non-welfare state, is extremely strong on civil liberties, provides the country has a strong military [but uses such only when needed - speak softly, carry big stick], and has the utmost respect of the environment and the conservation of resources. Those are majority of my core principles - and for this election, the choice that most closely mirrors most of these is McCain/Palin; no, not perfect, not by long shot, but at least I know him, have seen his record, and even w/ the warts of his past, I will take him over Obama, for I cringe to think of this gentleman leading our country. Barack is an excellent speaker/orator, has a wonderful way with words - one of the best of any I've heard - and brings a very fresh & exciting voice to the political world... yet, looking at his record, his own beliefs, and of those he has associated with [yes, IMHO that is a valid part of his person, by choosing to swim in the same waters as some of these people, he taints himself, greatly], Barack is not getting this hillbilly's vote. BTW - I've voted for many Democrats in the past, as I believe in voting for the individual, not the "party"... can not wait until there is a valid strong 3rd choice. These two are killing us

[jlmwusa]

Originally Posted by Inoxkeeper

NOBAMA for me...his plan is to give the country away to gay loving liberals and illegal aliens. How is that a good thing? Why is this thread in the MO forum?

He is the worst thing to ever happen to America. Hopefully enough folks will come to their senses and vote that dog down.

Yes, McCain is such an expert on immigration. Have you spoke with anyone in Phoenix lately??? Give the country to gay loving liberals? God we can only hope so. Bless him and his vision for change.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by jlmwusa

Yes, McCain is such an expert on immigration. Have you spoke with anyone in Phoenix lately??? Give the country to gay loving liberals? God we can only hope so. Bless him and his vision for change.

I have no idea what you are saying. I think I hear one talk radio "talking point."

[northbayeric]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

I have no idea what you are saying. I think I hear one talk radio "talking point."

I think the gentleman should be made to go out and pick lots of lettuce! Illegal aliens? No. Immigrants who are willing to learn English and obey our laws? Sure, and we should help them every way we can as private citizens.

Rep points for GraniteStater as soon as I'm out of Da Rep Point Grey Bar Hotel!

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by northbayeric

I think the gentleman should be made to go out and pick lots of lettuce! Illegal aliens? No. Immigrants who are willing to learn English and obey our laws? Sure, and we should help them every way we can as private citizens.

Rep points for GraniteStater as soon as I'm out of Da Rep Point Grey Bar Hotel!

I have some issues understanding a sentence made by a poster when they make four separate points.
With that being said I don't think McCain is necessarily adressing such issues like: Illegal Immigration, NAFTA, Borders, and Outsourcing of Jobs. I think many voters care about these issues, but neither candidate is tackling them too much. I think Obama wanted to penalize employers who outsource American jobs overseas.

[ucfjtm]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

I have some issues understanding a sentence made by a poster when they make four separate points.
With that being said I don't think McCain is necessarily adressing such issues like: Illegal Immigration, NAFTA, Borders, and Outsourcing of Jobs. I think many voters care about these issues, but neither candidate is tackling them too much. I think Obama wanted to penalize employers who outsource American jobs overseas.

No, he said he would provide tax incentives to hire American workers, but of course he gives NO specifics for any of it.

Both candidates have completely dodged illegal immigration.
Both candidates have said they won't renegotiate NAFTA.
Both candidates have ignored the border.
Both candidates are very weak about job outsourcing, especially since a statement to penalize companies that outsource would likely hurt the stock market, even though it would be better for American workers.

Both candidates have sold out what the majority of the country wants to favor big business and to try to buy the Hispanic voting group. McCain's the only one who is willing to use a veto on a Democrat-majority House & Senate on bad bills, so that's my main reason to support him over Obama. In reality, they're both very weak candidates for what's "best" for most people in our country.

Want what's best for our country? Seal the border & deport all illegals.. putting them in line for an attempt at legal citizenship the way everyone in history has had to do. That'll save a ton of money from overcrowded schools, hospitals that are having to cover the bill for treating illegals, government from having court/legal related issues by illegals, insurance costs would drop for health & autos, etc. This one issue would reduce a LOT of costs. I'm definitely not anti-immigration. I'm anti-illegal immigration.

Want what's best for our country? Create an easier path for legal immigration. Have routes for guest status for those who do not wish to become citizens, and a long citizenship path for those who do. Both of these paths will allow for proper record-keeping, and they'll help reduce the problem of illegal immigration in the future. Only immigrants who *want* to become Americans should be allowed citizenship. You can keep your heritage and culture within the family, but do as other generations have done and assimilate into the culture we already have, bringing aspects of your culture into the mix. Eliminate the "anchor law" that gives automatic citizenship to babies born within the US boder. This law was created to allow babies of former slaves to be citizens, an issue that has no relevance today, and ease of transportation makes deportation a non-issue in terms of logistics (we don't have to send an illegal with a newborn baby on a month-long voyage back across the Atlantic). Like every country I can think of, require at least one parent to be a citizen for the baby to be a citizen. Officially declare English as the national language, as it has been "unofficially" for over 200 years. Mandate that each major city (or the county seat if there are no majory cities nearby) offers free English classes for those who are registered "guests" or on the path to citizenship. Immigration isn't the problem - illegal immigration is. Heavily punish companies/people that hire illegals, and heavily punish illegals that use stolen identities or remain in this country illegally.

Want what's best for our country? Repeal / renegotiate NAFTA to bring manufacturing and textile jobs back to America. Our businesses may not grow as quickly since costs will be higher for American workers, but the re-investment in the people of this country will be worth it for the sale of products and long-term growth of the nation. Renegotiate trade deals with other countries, so that South Korea imports as many US cars as we import of their Kias, Daewoos, and Hyundais, and China doesn't have nearly a $300 billion dollar trade deficit every year with us.

Want what's best for our country? Implement FairTax, with the addition of an income tax on the very wealthy (5% for those making $500k, 10% for those making $1m, 15% for those making $2.5m, 20% for those making $5m, and 25% for those making $10m). Even 25% on those making $10m will be far less than their current 36% tax rate, although purchases with FairTax should balance it out. Allow for NO tax deductions or loopholes, considering everyone under $500k will not be paying any income tax. Suspend FairTax on "reasonably-priced" food and clothing, so the poor can afford the essentials (and I'm not talking about suspending the tax on $120 designer jeans, just the standard "affordable" clothing, perhaps with the requirement that it be made in the USA.)

Want what's best for our country? Let the federal government handle defense, legislation, and federal record-keeping, and shift the power back to the states. If California wants to run itself differently than Texas, it has a right to do that. People have the choice to move to states that more closely fit their values, without the federal government deciding every social issue for their lives. For the most part, blanket laws shouldn't apply to the entire country.

Want what's best for our country? Reduce healthcare costs by heavily reducing malpractice lawsuits. Open up doctor and hospital mistakes, holding them accountable for their actions. They'll then be more worried about maintaining a solid public reputation than worry about being sued for $50 million for a relatively minor mistake. Doctors/nurses/staff who make major mistakes will be made public, and multiple offenses will have their license revoked. Reduce patent length on new drugs, so generic "affordable" versions are available sooner. Legislation can fix healthcare issues - we don't need government financial assistance to make it affordable since this money is just guaranteed taxpayer investment in healthcare companies that are already profiting substantially.

Want what's best for our country? Fix schooling by holding bad teachers AND parents accountable. Parents are more responsible for the lack of educational skills in our kids today compared to the years in the past. Discipline and respect for the teachers from kids (who learn these attitudes from their parents) is the cause of the problem. Eliminate lawsuits from public schools. So many great teachers are more worried about getting sued than teaching class, and many disrespectful kids know this. Eliminate No Child Left Behind. Eliminate teaching kids to pass standardized tests and get back to teaching a balanced curriculum. Opening up zoning to allow parents their choice of school. The main problem here is a social issue, heavily influenced by parents, to get kids interested in school again. Teachers have relatively little control of this aspect of how America has changed. Most teachers can't be blamed for this.

There are so many aspects of these issues that will improve the economic situation we're currently in while decreasing government spending.. our system is broken, and it's time to stop being PC to start doing what's right for every citizen of the country. I could go on.. but that's enough for now.

[ShadowCaver]

Want what's best for our country? My vote goes to ucfjtm...

So, when and where are you running for office? Seriously, you very well stated many great points here. Thanks.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by ucfjtm

No, he said he would provide tax incentives to hire American workers, but of course he gives NO specifics for any of it.

Both candidates have completely dodged illegal immigration.
Both candidates have said they won't renegotiate NAFTA.
Both candidates have ignored the border.
Both candidates are very weak about job outsourcing, especially since a statement to penalize companies that outsource would likely hurt the stock market, even though it would be better for American workers.

Both candidates have sold out what the majority of the country wants to favor big business and to try to buy the Hispanic voting group. McCain's the only one who is willing to use a veto on a Democrat-majority House & Senate on bad bills, so that's my main reason to support him over Obama. In reality, they're both very weak candidates for what's "best" for most people in our country.

Want what's best for our country? Seal the border & deport all illegals.. putting them in line for an attempt at legal citizenship the way everyone in history has had to do. That'll save a ton of money from overcrowded schools, hospitals that are having to cover the bill for treating illegals, government from having court/legal related issues by illegals, insurance costs would drop for health & autos, etc. This one issue would reduce a LOT of costs. I'm definitely not anti-immigration. I'm anti-illegal immigration.

Want what's best for our country? Create an easier path for legal immigration. Have routes for guest status for those who do not wish to become citizens, and a long citizenship path for those who do. Both of these paths will allow for proper record-keeping, and they'll help reduce the problem of illegal immigration in the future. Only immigrants who *want* to become Americans should be allowed citizenship. You can keep your heritage and culture within the family, but do as other generations have done and assimilate into the culture we already have, bringing aspects of your culture into the mix. Eliminate the "anchor law" that gives automatic citizenship to babies born within the US boder. This law was created to allow babies of former slaves to be citizens, an issue that has no relevance today, and ease of transportation makes deportation a non-issue in terms of logistics (we don't have to send an illegal with a newborn baby on a month-long voyage back across the Atlantic). Like every country I can think of, require at least one parent to be a citizen for the baby to be a citizen. Officially declare English as the national language, as it has been "unofficially" for over 200 years. Mandate that each major city (or the county seat if there are no majory cities nearby) offers free English classes for those who are registered "guests" or on the path to citizenship. Immigration isn't the problem - illegal immigration is. Heavily punish companies/people that hire illegals, and heavily punish illegals that use stolen identities or remain in this country illegally.

Want what's best for our country? Repeal / renegotiate NAFTA to bring manufacturing and textile jobs back to America. Our businesses may not grow as quickly since costs will be higher for American workers, but the re-investment in the people of this country will be worth it for the sale of products and long-term growth of the nation. Renegotiate trade deals with other countries, so that South Korea imports as many US cars as we import of their Kias, Daewoos, and Hyundais, and China doesn't have nearly a $300 billion dollar trade deficit every year with us.

Want what's best for our country? Implement FairTax, with the addition of an income tax on the very wealthy (5% for those making $500k, 10% for those making $1m, 15% for those making $2.5m, 20% for those making $5m, and 25% for those making $10m). Even 25% on those making $10m will be far less than their current 36% tax rate, although purchases with FairTax should balance it out. Allow for NO tax deductions or loopholes, considering everyone under $500k will not be paying any income tax. Suspend FairTax on "reasonably-priced" food and clothing, so the poor can afford the essentials (and I'm not talking about suspending the tax on $120 designer jeans, just the standard "affordable" clothing, perhaps with the requirement that it be made in the USA.)

Want what's best for our country? Let the federal government handle defense, legislation, and federal record-keeping, and shift the power back to the states. If California wants to run itself differently than Texas, it has a right to do that. People have the choice to move to states that more closely fit their values, without the federal government deciding every social issue for their lives. For the most part, blanket laws shouldn't apply to the entire country.

Want what's best for our country? Reduce healthcare costs by heavily reducing malpractice lawsuits. Open up doctor and hospital mistakes, holding them accountable for their actions. They'll then be more worried about maintaining a solid public reputation than worry about being sued for $50 million for a relatively minor mistake. Doctors/nurses/staff who make major mistakes will be made public, and multiple offenses will have their license revoked. Reduce patent length on new drugs, so generic "affordable" versions are available sooner. Legislation can fix healthcare issues - we don't need government financial assistance to make it affordable since this money is just guaranteed taxpayer investment in healthcare companies that are already profiting substantially.

Want what's best for our country? Fix schooling by holding bad teachers AND parents accountable. Parents are more responsible for the lack of educational skills in our kids today compared to the years in the past. Discipline and respect for the teachers from kids (who learn these attitudes from their parents) is the cause of the problem. Eliminate lawsuits from public schools. So many great teachers are more worried about getting sued than teaching class, and many disrespectful kids know this. Eliminate No Child Left Behind. Eliminate teaching kids to pass standardized tests and get back to teaching a balanced curriculum. Opening up zoning to allow parents their choice of school. The main problem here is a social issue, heavily influenced by parents, to get kids interested in school again. Teachers have relatively little control of this aspect of how America has changed. Most teachers can't be blamed for this.

There are so many aspects of these issues that will improve the economic situation we're currently in while decreasing government spending.. our system is broken, and it's time to stop being PC to start doing what's right for every citizen of the country. I could go on.. but that's enough for now.

Excellent answers ucfjtm.
1 huge rep point coming up.

[ucfjtm]

Originally Posted by ShadowCaver

Want what's best for our country? My vote goes to ucfjtm...

So, when and where are you running for office? Seriously, you very well stated many great points here. Thanks.

Haha.. thanks, but I'm a few years short of qualifying for running for many offices. (Maybe a 2016 run for President though! )

I'm not too crazy about being slandered with lies by the media on an hourly basis, which happens if you're not a liberal. I've always been passionate about doing what's right for the country, but I also stand by the beliefs of our freedoms. Maybe after my move to STL next year and I'm settled in the area for a few years, I'll consider some sort of public office run, but elections are difficult to win without money behind them.

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Excellent answers ucfjtm.
1 huge rep point coming up.

Thanks.. I'll state again, does Obama have the guts to veto something the Democrat party passes through House and Senate? I seriously doubt it. I'd feel a hell of a lot safer with McCain in office to say "no" to something like this:
House Democrats Contemplate Abolishing 401(k) Tax Breaks | workforce.com

Basically, Democrats, led by McDermott and Miller, want to seize all of our 401k accounts and essentially force us to pay 5% into it each year (with no mention of employer-matching payments). They want to remove the *optional* status of even choosing to have a 401k for employees, thus making it another mandatory "Social Security" tax program. (Funny, Social Security started off as an optional program too..) They'll pay us 3% over inflation on it, and add in around $500 a year. They want to take it over so we no longer have a choice of how to invest it - I personally like spreading my 401k into various mutual funds I trust. I *know* over a 10 year period, my investments will be well over 3% over inflation. This is another case of the government using another excuse (current stock market crash) to take more control over our money.

This is EXACTLY what I don't support Obama in office. He won't say no to another outrageous program that his fellow Democrats support! If the House & Senate pass something like this, I'm *IMMEDIATELY* pulling all my money out of my 401k and investing it directly into my own mutual funds & index stocks. We don't need the government taking over our investment options, especially when they can't even manage our previously-*optional* program called Social Security correctly.

Obama says he won't raise taxes to 95% of Americans. However, a plan like this is essentially giving ALL Americans a 5% tax increase on "Social Security/Government Retirement Account" payments. The supporters of this takeover (McDermott and others) even state they're doing it to make more tax revenue! I don't trust anything either party does, which is exactly why I don't want either party to have full control of the government.

Thoughts on this 401k takeover? Keep in mind that the stock market averages around a 10% growth per year over a given decade.. that's around 7% over inflation, not 3% that this government takeover offers.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by ucfjtm

Haha.. thanks, but I'm a few years short of qualifying for running for many offices. (Maybe a 2016 run for President though! )

I'm not too crazy about being slandered with lies by the media on an hourly basis, which happens if you're not a liberal. I've always been passionate about doing what's right for the country, but I also stand by the beliefs of our freedoms. Maybe after my move to STL next year and I'm settled in the area for a few years, I'll consider some sort of public office run, but elections are difficult to win without money behind them.



Thanks.. I'll state again, does Obama have the guts to veto something the Democrat party passes through House and Senate? I seriously doubt it. I'd feel a hell of a lot safer with McCain in office to say "no" to something like this:
House Democrats Contemplate Abolishing 401(k) Tax Breaks | workforce.com

Basically, Democrats, led by McDermott and Miller, want to seize all of our 401k accounts and essentially force us to pay 5% into it each year (with no mention of employer-matching payments). They want to remove the *optional* status of even choosing to have a 401k for employees, thus making it another mandatory "Social Security" tax program. (Funny, Social Security started off as an optional program too..) They'll pay us 3% over inflation on it, and add in around $500 a year. They want to take it over so we no longer have a choice of how to invest it - I personally like spreading my 401k into various mutual funds I trust. I *know* over a 10 year period, my investments will be well over 3% over inflation. This is another case of the government using another excuse (current stock market crash) to take more control over our money.

This is EXACTLY what I don't support Obama in office. He won't say no to another outrageous program that his fellow Democrats support! If the House & Senate pass something like this, I'm *IMMEDIATELY* pulling all my money out of my 401k and investing it directly into my own mutual funds & index stocks. We don't need the government taking over our investment options, especially when they can't even manage our previously-*optional* program called Social Security correctly.

Obama says he won't raise taxes to 95% of Americans. However, a plan like this is essentially giving ALL Americans a 5% tax increase on "Social Security/Government Retirement Account" payments. The supporters of this takeover (McDermott and others) even state they're doing it to make more tax revenue! I don't trust anything either party does, which is exactly why I don't want either party to have full control of the government.

Thoughts on this 401k takeover? Keep in mind that the stock market averages around a 10% growth per year over a given decade.. that's around 7% over inflation, not 3% that this government takeover offers.

Eh, I think you could have a great debate with Steve Moore (Wall Street Journal and on TV regularly) on many of these issues. He would probably agree with 90% of what you are saying.