Missouri loses a notch in population ranking (Kansas City, St. Joseph: neighborhood, buy)

[ozarksboy]

He says in post 45 above that he's got another six years before he can leave Califoreignya.

I know he has kin in Missouri, but I didn't know he's originally from our state. Nevertheless, he's been away so long that he's going to have to re-establish his credentials as a Missourian.

He seems like a regular good ole boy, though, so we may waive the requirements and wave him on through the border check station.

Plus, he says he's got a real good-lookin' wife. That, too, will help him get past the Missouri citizenship requirements.

[tambre]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

There's only one way to manage the population growth brought to some rural counties by newcomers, and you are the one who broached that subject. Planning and zoning is one of your ideas. I'm not going to call it a good idea, as you have done, but I will acknowledge it seems to be the only idea.

With increased population density, especially along the transportation corridors, comes a need for regulation of growth. Cities such as Rolla can, and do, regulate the growth in the incorporated areas along the highways. Most rural counties, though, do not.

I don't know if state law allows counties the right to zone only along specific routes. I think counties can vote in only countywide planning and zoning. For some counties, that's the only way to manage that growth.

People who live in those counties but not along the transportation corridors will fight planning and zoning. That's why they chose either to stay in the rural counties or move to the rural counties; they don't want the regulation.

So from where will the impetus for countywide zoning come? It won't come from most rural residents. It won't come from newbies like Cali Bassman who's looking forward to becoming a Missourian so he can get away from regulation.

It looks like it's going to have to come from people like you, Tambre, people who want to live the rural lifestyle offered by Missouri but who also understand the realities of the modern-day world, i.e. we need to regulate that growth caused by movement between states.

As you've pointed out, people are moving here in droves from all over the United States, and will continue to do so. We're going to have to zone, plan and regulate that herd of folks; otherwise we're going to uglify the Ozarks.

I like your ideas about keeping population density along the major traffic corridors.

Planning for growth in a community I know nothing about is way above my pay grade. In my opinion, that is for the old timers to decide, and I have all the faith in them that they will make the wisest decisions. They are the ones who haved loved and nurtured the land for decades. They know what's best and how best to accomplish it. If I could be of help in supporting their decisions, then I would try to help.

[Inoxkeeper]

Interesting thread, I am doing my part to limit newcomers by buying up the land near mine. Most of my rural neighbors own at least 25 acres so we are widely dispersed.

We are in the middle of national forest, that helps keep the pop. down a ton.
There are 300 acres right behind me that no one will ever build on. Public and private lands are all mixed up together in this area giving us a more remote feel.

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

There's only one way to manage the population growth brought to some rural counties by newcomers, and you are the one who broached that subject. Planning and zoning is one of your ideas. I'm not going to call it a good idea, as you have done, but I will acknowledge it seems to be the only idea.

With increased population density, especially along the transportation corridors, comes a need for regulation of growth. Cities such as Rolla can, and do, regulate the growth in the incorporated areas along the highways. Most rural counties, though, do not.

I consider Rolla a great example of poor planning and vision. It has gotten better in the past few years, but still has a long ways to go. The elevated rail tracks through town make sure that everyone hears every train coming through (I lived less than a block from them myself), the location of the university right in the middle of town is resulting it in carving up its own golf course for more land, and poorly planned and designed streets and transportation system in general lead to a town of 16,000 having the traffic and congestion problems of one much larger. Some new business was attracted through TIF, which ended up displacing residents from their homes by the city so new businesses could go in. Not the best way to do things, IMO. While downtown Rolla isn't dead, for a college town its very poorly laid out. It could be filled with more good places to eat and drink (while Alex's and the Grotto are great, they are really the only options), giving the locals and college students a respectable and walkable downtown, but instead it feels dead just about all of the time. Additionally, the divide between the town and the university isn't particularly working out good for either, as if they would work together and take more pride in each other, it would be beneficial to both.

I had some of the best years of my life so far as a student at UMR, but I think it could be a much nicer place with some better planning and vision. Maybe what Rolla needs is some of those progressive left-coasters to move in and change things

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

Maybe what Rolla needs is some of those progressive left-coasters to move in and change things

You rang?

Just kidding. A left-coaster for sure, at the moment, but hardly progressive. Still, what seems to be working is a move towards residential density in the downtown. As younger, professional, more urban-inclined people move in, the numbers of services for them -- restaurants, clubs, entertainment venues -- increase accordingly. This once quite and relatively boring capitol city that used to roll up its streets at about 5:30 after all the state workers went home now has an actual night life. Included is what is called "Second Saturday" on which all the many art galleries stay open late for showings by local artists while serving wine and snacks for those who drop in. Restaurants, bars and clubs cooperate by having specials which draws customers to them as well.

Buit there are also down-sides. As residential density increases through the proliferation of "loft" apartments and condos (I always thought of lofts as places to store hay), so, too, do overcrowding, parking issues, noise, increased need for services such as police, fire and medical, etc. Unfortunately, crime rises as well so you have to plan carefully and understand that there will almost always be some bad mixed with the good.

I, for one, can't wait to move to MO in the Spring. In fact, I might just move to Rolla to find a place by Ozarks Boy so he'll have something more to complain about!

[northbayeric]

Originally Posted by tambre

NBE, I wish you the best of luck with selling your house in April and making Missouri your new home.

Thank you so much; and I don't know if you're also trying to get moved to Missouri. If you are, I wish you the very best too!

The CA real estate market is just horrendous, to say the least. Were it better, then there would be a greater exodus of Californians to other states. I think most of them still have places like Arizona , Nevada, Oregon and Idaho in mind instead of Missouri. There's speculation that the CA real estate market is still three years away from bottoming out. Where I'm at, real estate values have dropped 50 percent in 3 1/2 years. For some people, that could be an enticement for them to stay here and try to pick up a foreclosure bargain rather than skedaddle out of state.

Planning for growth in an unfamiliar community is above my pay grade too! In the case of St. Joseph, though, the census folks had to reverse themselves, acknowledging that, yes, St. Joe has actually grown a little and not lost population from the middle of this decade up until now. This is an extremely good thing--an indication that the local economy, while not great, is not so bad that young adults are having to flock down to Kansas City or to other places to eke out a living.

[northbayeric]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

He says in post 45 above that he's got another six years before he can leave Califoreignya.

I know he has kin in Missouri, but I didn't know he's originally from our state. Nevertheless, he's been away so long that he's going to have to re-establish his credentials as a Missourian.

He seems like a regular good ole boy, though, so we may waive the requirements and wave him on through the border check station.

Plus, he says he's got a real good-lookin' wife. That, too, will help him get past the Missouri citizenship requirements.

Cali BassMan won't have any trouble at all re-establishing his Missouri credentials. He, however has failed his Cali credentials pretty miserably, as have I! And Mrs. North Bay Eric is a perfect 10 on my ooh-la-la meter as well! Born and raised in Cali, but it took her all of about forty-five minutes on Missouri soil outside of Lambert Field when I took her there for the first time in '04 to know that she had found her future new home.

[MoNative34]

Originally Posted by northbayeric

In the case of St. Joseph, though, the census folks had to reverse themselves, acknowledging that, yes, St. Joe has actually grown a little and not lost population from the middle of this decade up until now. This is an extremely good thing--an indication that the local economy, while not great, is not so bad that young adults are having to flock down to Kansas City or to other places to eke out a living.

You can double your money working in Kansas City and have a better job if you have marketable skills. St. Joe spends a lot a time waiting for manufacturing jobs to come back. If I were a betting man, I wouldn't put money on that. I wish that town would attract companies in a growing field, not a dying one (like maufacturing).

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

You rang?

Just kidding. A left-coaster for sure, at the moment, but hardly progressive. Still, what seems to be working is a move towards residential density in the downtown. As younger, professional, more urban-inclined people move in, the numbers of services for them -- restaurants, clubs, entertainment venues -- increase accordingly. This once quite and relatively boring capitol city that used to roll up its streets at about 5:30 after all the state workers went home now has an actual night life. Included is what is called "Second Saturday" on which all the many art galleries stay open late for showings by local artists while serving wine and snacks for those who drop in. Restaurants, bars and clubs cooperate by having specials which draws customers to them as well.

Buit there are also down-sides. As residential density increases through the proliferation of "loft" apartments and condos (I always thought of lofts as places to store hay), so, too, do overcrowding, parking issues, noise, increased need for services such as police, fire and medical, etc. Unfortunately, crime rises as well so you have to plan carefully and understand that there will almost always be some bad mixed with the good.

I, for one, can't wait to move to MO in the Spring. In fact, I might just move to Rolla to find a place by Ozarks Boy so he'll have something more to complain about!

Austin has a similar event, called "first Thursdays" where all of the art galleries stay open late and one of the streets is closed so more vendors can come in. Supposedly anyway, although I've been living here for a year and a half I still haven't gotten around to checking it out

Rolla is really too small to ever have a substantial number of young professionals, but I think it could do a little better serving the college crowd, with around 6,000 students at MSM/UMR/MST in a town of only 16,000, they make up a lot of the people who live in the town. The university has made leaps and bounds in the past five years with regard to building new (and very nice) buildings, adding landscaping to the campus, and promoting the school, and the city of Rolla has made some progress with re-doing some of the streets, and adding things like big sidewalks, trees, and benches downtown. I realized I contradicted myself saying downtown Rolla isn't dead, and then saying it is, in my last post, what I meant is that there are plenty of businesses downtown, but if you drive through at 9 PM on a Friday night there won't be any people out besides a few filtering in and out of the one pizza place and bar which are open. As far as college towns go, Rolla is pretty dead. I think the town and school may be working together a little more these days, as hopefully the town is realizing that the school brings in a LOT of money to the town, and the school is hopefully realizing that prospective students want to go to college somewhere fun rather than somewhere drab (although there is a lot to do around Rolla if you are into the outdoors like I am). A nicer town means more students at the school, who then invest more money in the local economy, which helps the local Ozarkians who have ties to the area. Its really a win-win.

I think the same is true in many ways across rural Missouri. People moving in from other places aren't always a bad thing. They always end up putting money into the local economy, which is usually hurting. I'm not advocating unregulated growth and the paving over of the Ozarks, but I think it could be a little better when it comes to providing jobs to residents of the town to lower the high poverty levels and retaining the true local residents who may have to leave the area to find work.

[Lake Junkie]

Originally Posted by tambre

I like your ideas about keeping population density along the major traffic corridors.

There is a principal that says that an area won't grow if there isn't infrastructure. It appears to me that the areas that see the most population growth are the areas that have jobs...if you want to keep your town from growing, vote against that new industry, roads & attractions!

Originally Posted by Inoxkeeper

Interesting thread, I am doing my part to limit newcomers by buying up the land near mine. Most of my rural neighbors own at least 25 acres so we are widely dispersed.

We are in the middle of national forest, that helps keep the pop. down a ton.
There are 300 acres right behind me that no one will ever build on. Public and private lands are all mixed up together in this area giving us a more remote feel.

The perfect solution! The "down side" is you can't be 5 minutes to Walgreens...

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I, for one, can't wait to move to MO in the Spring. In fact, I might just move to Rolla to find a place by Ozarks Boy so he'll have something more to complain about!

Originally Posted by OA 5599

Austin has a similar event, called "first Thursdays" where all of the art galleries stay open late and one of the streets is closed so more vendors can come in.

Springfield has "First Friday" Artwalk in the downtown!

It's pretty ...