Missouri loses a notch in population ranking (Ozark, Richmond: chapel, houses)

[Curmudgeon]

[quote=ozarksboy;7084645]Well, I'm starting to rant and lose focus.

I'm sure no one noticed.

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

I guess what we really need in Rolla are more Califoreigners and Florimmigrants and other newcomers who really want to be Missourians.
Truly, if you want to live in Missouri and be in a place where you will be accepted immediately, Rolla is the place.

Moreover, if you want to be able to offer ideas from wherever you came, without fretting about being shunned as an outsider, this is the place, because most Rolla residents come from somewhere else. Complaining about Rolla is a pastime here. In fact, newcomers may complain a lot less than the long-time residents.

Now you're talkin'!

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

I'm an exception. I never complain.

Now THAT I've noticed.

[Silvermouse]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

That's a good thing, right?

Of course! You need to come to Rolla and hang out at those places OA was talking about. But remember - this is a college crowd, so don't forget your toga.

[Silvermouse]

Ozarksboy - you've got Rolla pegged right!

[OA 5599]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

But doesn't the market really work the other way? That is, you can't afford to build until you have an audience, a clientele, a customer base who will come to what you build.

Leo Cardetti, of St. James, some years ago opened an authentic Italian restaurant downtown right next to campus. There has been talk for years (it still continues) about the need for an Olive Garden here, but the city is too small for Olive Garden to consider. Cardetti's Ristorante operated a few months, but eventually Leo had to shut it down because it wasn't making any money and he didn't foresee it ever making money because there just wasn't enough customer support from either students or townies. And it was a good restaurant.

What entrepeneur is going to invest money into a nice restaurant unless he knows he's going to have diners? There has to be a crowd already there. The university is there, but are MSM/UMR/MST students going to visit interesting boutiques or restaurants? Occasionally, maybe, but not regularly.

MSM/UMR/MST students are not typical college students, like the young people in Kirksville or Warrensburg or Cape. These are technologically oriented kids, not party oriented (with the exception of one week in March). The rigorous curriculum demands that their nightlife be spent in the books, on the computer or in the lab. OA, you know that.

If there were a student market to support more downtown bars, restaurants, sandwich shops, etc., those businesses would be there, but the student market just isn't there.

Can you imagine the activity we would have in Rolla if we had 6,000 liberal arts students instead of 6,000 engineering/mining students? The UMR tech students need only a computer and a lab. Liberal arts students need places like bars, restaurants, internet cafes and coffee shops to sit around and argue, discuss, theorize and contemplate man, God and their navels. (I know this is true, because I have what amounts to a liberal arts degree from Mizzou.)

About the only result of downtown renovation were benches, matching trash cans and brick "bump-outs" at the corners and the renaming of the downtown parking lots as the festival lots, for the annual arts and crafts festival and the annual Route 66 Summerfest. These changes didn't make a bit of difference in commerce, only appearance; downtown is not thriving, but it isn't decaying and never was that I could see.

I guess what we really need in Rolla are more Califoreigners and Florimmigrants and other newcomers who really want to be Missourians.
Truly, if you want to live in Missouri and be in a place where you will be accepted immediately, Rolla is the place.

Moreover, if you want to be able to offer ideas from wherever you came, without fretting about being shunned as an outsider, this is the place, because most Rolla residents come from somewhere else. Complaining about Rolla is a pastime here. In fact, newcomers may complain a lot less than the long-time residents.

Expensive restaurants usually don't do as well drawing money from the college crowd, as most of the college students don't have a lot of extra cash. Restaurants in Rolla which seem to do quite well would be places like Alex's, El Rodeo (or whatever it is named now), and Lucky House. Neglecting Alex's which is at the higher-priced end, all of the other places offer decent to good food, larger portions, and low prices. Although as far as I know Kyoto is doing quite well, also. Consequently, they sell a lot of food to students. A few sandwich/burrito shops (I think a Chiptole would make a killing in Rolla) downtown would likely draw a lot of the college lunch and dinner crowd, assuming they were reasonably priced and good, and liven the place up a little bit.

I am quite familiar with what you are talking about, referring to expensive restaurants opening up where the market just won't support them. A nice BBQ restaurant/steakhouse and bar opened up in my hometown. However, they charge close to $10 for a BBQ entree, which is just as expensive, if not more expensive some of the finest BBQ in Austin, Texas (which is very delicious). The difference is people in Austin have money to burn because much less than a quarter of the population is below the poverty line. Granted, the restaurant in my hometown is really surprisingly good, and a nice place all around, but they can't be charging big-city prices for a meal in a place where most people make $10 an hour or less. It is still open, but I wouldn't be surprised if the doors are closed within a year, especially with the economy being crap.

And yes, complaining about Rolla is indeed a pastime for everyone. Students, locals, professors, visitors, everyone. I still had a good time there, but it makes for an interesting/unique college dynamic.

[ozarksboy]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

And yes, complaining about Rolla is indeed a pastime for everyone. Students, locals, professors, visitors, everyone. I still had a good time there, but it makes for an interesting/unique college dynamic.

The Missouri Miner used to refer to Rolla regularly as "the black hole." I think there may even have been a regular column titled "Life in The Black Hole" but I could be wrong; it may have just been a one-time article/essay.

Why don't you move back to Rolla and start a business?

[MoNative34]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

I think there may even have been a regular column titled "Life in The Black Hole" but I could be wrong; it may have just been a one-time article/essay.

Maybe he got too close to the hole and it sucked him in and he ended up in Edgar Springs, ozarksboy.

[J1ndo]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Yukon, Oklahoma is on the west coast?

Who knew?

Yes, the west coast of the Canadian River! Actually, I misspent my youth in Orange County, CA. (well, after moving from KC, and apart from childhood summers spent in Grove, OK and Joplin, MO with the grandparents).

I think most of the growth in SW MO came from "equity locusts", people from the coasts who sold their homes at the insanely inflated levels dictated by the housing frenzy of the past decade, and then moved to cheaper locations where the money from the their old homes could buy so much more (can you blame them?).

Since they had a cushion of cash, these folks didn't have to worry much about securing high paying jobs (in fact, many of them likely looked forward to getting by on low pressure hourly work) and so gravitated to scenic locations without worrying all that much about local job markets (see Bend, OR, Flagstaff, AZ, Santa Fe, NM, and yes Ozark towns like Springfield, Eureka Springs, etc.). I know you know all about this, but I'm nothing if not tedious.

Here's the upshot: that game is done. The collapse of the real estate markets nationwide means that people not only don't have huge equity gains with which to settle a new life in a sweeter locale, they're lucky if they have equity at all. And for those that do, they can't very easily sell their homes to turn it into usable cash. On top of all that, a good job is ever so much rarer now and ever so much more valued. There's much more willingness lately to run the "rat race" (always is, when the specter of poverty is chasing you).
Areas like SW MO are going to feel the effects (if you haven't already). The "Califoreigners" that can move are now moving to places that at least have jobs waiting for them.

That's not the Ozarks. Also, one of my cousins in the area worked at a bank in Springfield and told me horror stories of the debt-to-income ratios she was seeing (I know, purely anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth). A more concrete example of local debt levels can be seen in the many cornfields that were planted this spring and summer. Corn in the Ozarks!? For the non-farm types, growing marketable corn nowadays is not cheap (the signs posted at the edges of the fields that tout the "brand" of corn will attest that someone went into hock for some seed) and the soil in the Ozarks is not well suited to it, but when the market is up you take advantage, right? Well, corn is now near worthless.

The Ozarks region will be lucky if it retains the population it has over the next five years. I really don't think you need to worry much about overpopulation, at least not for a long while.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by J1ndo

The Ozarks region will be lucky if it retains the population it has over the next five years. I really don't think you need to worry much about overpopulation, at least not for a long while.

That's good. I appreciate all the info. It's always better to hear it from someone in the general locale than to try to rely merely on statistical research.

By the way, a significant portion of my misspent youth took place in Newport Beach. Some of the time there was incremental as my father was a career Marine officer and we traveled. Then I joined the military and traveled some more.

The attraction of the Ozarks is not just the scenery (my wife lived in and around Eureka Springs for seven years in a former life) and housing costs (since I lost everything in divorce 14 years ago) but the lifestyle. While we're both native Kahleefornyans, we look forward to leaving in the Spring.

[J1ndo]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

That's good. I appreciate all the info. It's always better to hear it from someone in the general locale than to try to rely merely on statistical research.

By the way, a significant portion of my misspent youth took place in Newport Beach. Some of the time there was incremental as my father was a career Marine officer and we traveled. Then I joined the military and traveled some more.

The attraction of the Ozarks is not just the scenery (my wife lived in and around Eureka Springs for seven years in a former life) and housing costs (since I lost everything in divorce 14 years ago) but the lifestyle. While we're both native Kahleefornyans, we look forward to leaving in the Spring.

I hear you. Missouri is a fine choice, too.

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by ozarksboy

He says in post 45 above that he's got another six years before he can leave Califoreignya.

I know he has kin in Missouri, but I didn't know he's originally from our state. Nevertheless, he's been away so long that he's going to have to re-establish his credentials as a Missourian.

He seems like a regular good ole boy, though, so we may waive the requirements and wave him on through the border check station.

Plus, he says he's got a real good-lookin' wife. That, too, will help him get past the Missouri citizenship requirements.

When you're from Missouri, you are always from Missouri! I have been away a long time myself, but my roots are deep, dont think I will even need to stop at the border check station!