Saint Louis vs. Kansas City? (St. Louis, Benton: live in, delivery, vacation)

[friedzone]

Thank you ladies and gentlemen. The winters are milder than Chicago but summers hotter per the chart. KC very similar. STL is a great sports town with all the stadiums located close downtown. Just a few quick impressions of mine.

[RickMG]

Originally Posted by razzy

So many falsities in this thread... mostly from the St Louis side about KC. Look at the average temperatures in the summer. They are virtually the same - both right at 90 degrees at the hottest point in July.

Average High/Low Temperatures for KMCI : Weather Underground

Average High/Low Temperatures for KSTL : Weather Underground

St Louis is about 3 degrees warmer in January, however.

And KC has a skyline in their midtown as well. Around the Crown Center. And another one in the Country Club Plaza area. Many high-rise apartments and office buildings. And in Overland Park, along 435, there are several other office towers.

St Louis is older, and therefore has more old architecture. But KC, particularly south of the Plaza, has street after street of beautiful older housing. KC also seems cleaner overall than St Louis, and it has many boulevards and fountains, as well as more park space and wide open spaces. St Louis feels more crowded, even considering that almost 500,000 people have moved out of it's city limits in the last 50-60 years.

Also... it is easier to find a house in a good public school district in the KC area for the money than it is in the St Louis area. You'll pay out the wazoo to buy a house in the better school districts in the St Louis area. I know this, as I have researched it extensively.

KC has more freeway miles and less people and is therefore easier to get around in. St Louis is hurt by the Missouri River separating St Louis and St Charles counties. They have to build more and more bridges over the river, even ones that go right through a park. Kansas City has no such constraints.

St Louis has light rail, but it isnt very expansive, and people living in south St Louis county and St Charles county dont want Metrolink extended into their areas, mostly because of racial reasons.

Lastly, KC has more of a western influence, is newer and cleaner overall, has more high-tech companies, and has better barbeque, while St Louis is older, more of an eastern city, more part of the rust belt, more unionized, and has great Italian restaurants.

Kansas City metro area has been growing more rapidly than the St Louis metro area in recent years.

All depends on what you want in a city.

Great post! I'm telling you, I haven't posted in months (I know you're all probably happy) but I got sick and tired of reading posts from someone who doesn't even live in St. Louis and is only old enough to even drive for about 8 years (and never even owned a car here). What they answer anyone can answer just by googling and that's most likely how they are answering judging by their posts. How can someone be so young and be at their computer so long that they can answer just about every thread not only from here, but where they live too? Especially about how each and every neighborhood is either good or bad, and especially give advise on where someone should live or not? EVERYONE IS BETTER OFF NOT GETTING THESE KIND OF POSTS.

As for K.C., I go there for weeks on end each year for conferences (for over 25 years) for either my wife or for my car clubs. I absolutely love the city (I love St. Louis much more, but that's because it's home). Our sports venues and Union Station are much nicer than theirs, as is our downtown but K.C.'s Westport area blows our downtown entertainment area away, and the area around and including Country Club Plaza blows our Central West End and Clayton areas away. Kansas City's architecture is far and away hands down over St. Louis. Just drive up Ward Parkway and you'll think you're in Beverly Hills. Yes, I would say it's a much cleaner city with restaurants that blow ours away, with the notable exception of Italian restaurants. They have every chain we have plus many more. They have unbelievable BBQ restaurants, and we have what? Bandanas! They have many more great steak houses among other types of restaurants than we have. And our New Town and other like developments can only ever hope to compare to K.C.'s Zona Rosa area by the airport.

Now, as for the people, I would have to say that St. Louis has the better, more polite people. Maybe it's just because I am mostly running around like a tourist when I'm there so who knows on that one.

*note, this post does not name anyone and only states my opinion (not wikpedia's or google's).

[kcmo]

Wow guys come on, where is the love for neighboring city to the west?

I typically don’t do this because I love St Louis. It’s my second home.

But KC needs a bit of respect here.

First off, the sizes of the metros are closer than you would like to admit.

Even though the MSA’s are different by around 700k, not quite the 1 million somebody said, KC has three other MSA’s that are right next door and there is well over 2.5 million people within about 50 minutes of Downtown KC, not all that far from the 2.8 million that live within an hour of Downtown St Louis and don’t kid yourselves, the amount of counties it takes to get to 2.8 million is larger than KC. The MSA of StL goes half way across IL. I would say that St Louis overall is more dense mostly just because of St Louis County and St Louis City though since the rest of the counties in your MSA are even more spread out than KC is outside the built up core and inner burbs.

Oh and did I mention that the KC area is growing about twice as fast as the StL area? So the gap is narrowing every year.

KC doesn’t not have NHL or NBA, but it sure seems like we should be getting one soon. Everybody says KC is at the top of the list for a team and any team that even remotely thinks about moving thinks about moving to KC first. KC also has something St Louis doesn’t have and wants. The MLS, and KC is building a 20,000 seat Major League Soccer stadium for the Wizards in South KC. Plus, KC has a major nascar track if you like racing. I’m not fond of it myself, but it’s popular. The Blues were hanging on by a thread a few years ago and the Rams are about to bolt if you don’t’ give them a new stadium. We have a great NFL stadium and our baseball stadium will soon be one of the best in baseball, despite it’s non-downtown location.

You got us beat on free things, I suppose, but I think KC sure gives St Louis a run for their money when it comes to attractions and museums. KC has world class museums, the WWI Monument, the Negro League Museum, the Nelson Atkins. We are building a 420 million dollar performing arts center that will rival only a few in the world. KC has Worlds of Fun and Oceans of Fun and is building one of the largest water parks in the world, Schlitterbaun’s flagship park.

Downtown KCMO and Downtown StL both are back from the dead, but I think KC has been far more successful with adding residential development.

StL has a great Light Rail system and a horrible bus system. KC has a very good bus system in the urban core by horrible outside the core.

StL lost its airline hub. Did you forget? Since then, KCI has crept up on StL while StL has declined. The airports are now neck and neck in passengers with about 10-12 million per year.

KC is not a “Great Plains” city. The urban core of KC has much rougher terrain that urban StL which is pretty flat. KC’s core is more like what South County is.

Both cities have major problems with sprawl and crime and both cities have similar climate. They are 250 miles apart; I don’t think the weather is that different, you get what KC had the day before.

Anyway, I love both towns, but I always laugh at how so many in StL simply can not fathom the idea that KC is on par with StL. They are much more similar than people in StL would ever want to admit and from my personal experience, most of them simply don’t know much about KC. Those that do, don’t think like that and most of the people I know from StL that know KC well, have since moved to KC because for the past decade, KC’s economy has been much healthier.

And quit talking about Clayton, it's a sterile inner ring suburb. I like it, but it's nothing like the plaza. CWE is great though, but the Plaza in KC is much larger. I Like south StL city etc and KC offers similar urban living options.

Here are some photos of KC.

[kcmo]

And why isn't this thread under Missouri rather than StLouis, since it's about KC and StL and you might get more imput from people in KC if they knew about the thread.



Mod note: thread moved... equal rights for the KC peoples!

[STLCardsBlues1989]

Downtown KCMO and Downtown StL both are back from the dead, but I think KC has been far more successful with adding residential development.

St. Louis has added a lot of residential development, including Roberts Tower, which is still being built. Of course you also have the Bankers Lofts, Bee Hat Apartments, GW Lofts, Tudor Loft Apartments, The Georgian, Bogen Lofts, Bell Lofts, Merchandise Mart Apartments, Majestic Stove Lofts, The Marquette, Knickerbocker Lofts, Ely Walker, Cupples Station Apartments, Continental Life Building, Motor Lofts, Packard Lofts, Alexander Lofts, Fashion Square Lofts, Paul Brown Lofts, Grace Lofts

A few of these could be considered Downtown West (GW Lofts, Tudor Lofts), but you get my point. There's been a lot of residential development, mostly rehab, in Downtown and Downtown West the past few years.

[kcmo]

yea, and there has been more in KC. It's a fact. Downtown KC has converted dozens of towers to residential and entire warehouse districts like the crossroads, garment district, river market and others have been completely renovated into mostly residential.

Imagine what has happened on Washington Ave and then multiply that by 3 or 4.

I’m not goint to sit here and say that KC is better than StL or that StL doesn’t hold a candle to KC because that’s nonsense, both are great cities.

But I really think that most people from StL have absolutely no clue what KC is like, just like most people from KC have no clue what StL is like. Most people in KC don’t know anything about StL outside of the Landing, Union Station and the Ach. They don’t eve know about Washington Ave or the Hill, let alone the Loop, Soulard, CWE, SLU etc.

Downtown KC and Downtown StL were both pretty pathetic up till a few years ago and considering Downtown StL has a major national tourism destination (arch) and THREE major sports venues, I think that’s a pretty amazing accomplishment to still have a pretty dead downtown when there are no games going on.

I believe there are about twice as many downtown residents in KCMO as in StL today. Just accept that fact that there are some things about StL that are not exactly great.

Here are some photos of residential development in Downtown KC. This only only downtown, nothing in the plaza or midtown, which have even more urban living options than Downtown.

[en08]

Having lived in both cities (currently in STL) I would say KC has a MUCH better skyline. We have WAY more tall buildings (go to wikipedia and type in Tallest Buildings in Missouri, and most are in KC. We also have more iconic buildings, such as the bartle pylons and the Liberty Memorial. One KC place and the Transamerica tower are also "iconic". I like the "bowl" design of our skyline, where there are two clusters of tall buildings, both distinct. STL has nothing to compare. Their skyline is very pathetic, and without the arch it would be really bad. The arch isn't that impressive to me.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

KC is nice, but to me nothing compares to a sunset behind the Arch and Courthouse.

Just a matter of opinion.

There was an article a while back about KC's Power and Light District. Something about the city using millions in tax dollars to keep it afloat. I tried searching for it on Kansas City star, but I couldn't find anything about it. Their search tool isn't the best.
Kansas City paying interest on Cordish bonds | Mound City Money | STLtoday
A Tale of Six Cities: How They Weathered Slump - WSJ.com


I agree, the pit behind Busch is ugly, but at least it's just a pit, not a taxpayer's money pit.

[Brickmama]

KCMO you said yea, and there has been more in KC. It's a fact. Downtown KC has converted dozens of towers to residential and entire warehouse districts like the crossroads, garment district, river market and others have been completely renovated into mostly residential.

I challenge you to prove it to all of us that what you are saying is true. I want to see the statistics that KC have invested more money and increased their pop downtown more than STL. I think what you find will disappoint you.

[Brickmama]

RickMG, you said Kansas City's architecture is far and away hands down over St. Louis. Just drive up Ward Parkway and you'll think you're in Beverly Hills.

We are only comparing the architecture in the only the city limits of both cities. Have you actually driven around STL city and took notice of the architechture? Downtown, Soulard, Benton Park, Compton Heights, CWE, TG South and East, Midtown, Mvkinley Heights, Holly Hills, Carondalet, Old North STL, etc...

I think what you see will cause you to change your viewpoint. Any architecture junkie will side with STL in this category.