Saint Louis vs. Kansas City? (St. Louis, Overland: hotels, home, casinos)

[STLCardsBlues1989]

STL people are actually about the worst talking about their city. St. Louisans love to talk negatively about their city, whether they know what they are talking about or not. It's like a local past time to put down the city.

So I don't really see your point.

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

St Louis style ribs are all over the country. I had them in Tampa.

Straight from your own newspaper
As much as downtown KC has done, similar cities have done more - Kansas City Star

OH and on the BBQ, do you not realize you can go to many states and find KC BBQ referenced at BBQ joints?


From the Chicago Tribune:

Kansas City barbecue takes on a life all its own - Food | Centre Daily

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989

STL people are actually about the worst talking about their city. St. Louisans love to talk negatively about their city, whether they know what they are talking about or not. It's like a local past time to put down the city.

So I don't really see your point.

The point is the original link I was responding to was from the KC star saying Downtown KC needs to do more, which I agree with. Brickmama posted it as a "HA LOOK WHAT YOUR OWN PAPER SAYS" but further reading shows the paper isn't knocking Downtown KC, and it doesn't include stats since the P&L district opened.

My point is you can find the negative when you go looking for it, as was shown with my post from STL citizens themselves all trashing downtown STL.

[ShadowCaver]

Originally Posted by skrazzle

The point is the original link I was responding to was from the KC star saying Downtown KC needs to do more, which I agree with. Brickmama posted it as a "HA LOOK WHAT YOUR OWN PAPER SAYS" but further reading shows the paper isn't knocking Downtown KC, and it doesn't include stats since the P&L district opened.

My point is you can find the negative when you go looking for it, as was shown with my post from STL citizens themselves all trashing downtown STL.

True, people can find negatives, look for it or not... however, what is more important, can some people find the positives?

Person can witch and moan all their life about something, but can they spend at least half that energy/time into improving?

[Brickmama]

Gee I am quite surprized that they labeled our nightlife as nonexistant. We actually have a very diverse nighlife rivaled by most of our peer cities. The article is crap.

Skrazzle, "our downtown stands out in a few big ways — we’ve added more lofts and condos per year than any of our peers," How many of the lofts and condos were actually purchased as a primary residence and are currently occupied? I can build 100 homes on a plain in Nebraska however if no one lives there then it really doesnt matter that we just added 100 homes.

I am just stating that your own newspaper recognizes that KC has not perfomed like its peers in downtown development. Its a fact!!! And yes they were aware of the P&L district since it was under construction then. Plus the P&L district just like our future Ballpark Village is a fake suburban development. Most true urbanities get sick to their stomach when participating in such a development.

You also never answered my question. When was the last time you were in downtown STL and where did you go? Please answer the question before you make any more comments about DT STL.

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

Gee I am quite surprized that they labeled our nightlife as nonexistant. We actually have a very diverse nighlife rivaled by most of our peer cities. The article is crap.

Skrazzle, "our downtown stands out in a few big ways — we’ve added more lofts and condos per year than any of our peers," How many of the lofts and condos were actually purchased as a primary residence and are currently occupied? I can build 100 homes on a plain in Nebraska however if no one lives there then it really doesnt matter that we just added 100 homes.

I am just stating that your own newspaper recognizes that KC has not perfomed like its peers in downtown development. Its a fact!!! And yes they were aware of the P&L district since it was under construction then. Plus the P&L district just like our future Ballpark Village is a fake suburban development. Most true urbanities get sick to their stomach when participating in such a development.

You also never answered my question. When was the last time you were in downtown STL and where did you go? Please answer the question before you make any more comments about DT STL.

2 years ago in downtown STL.... and it was a snoozefest. I was hanging with my old roommate who lives there for school now, so its not like I didn't know where to go. It's not the worst by far, it just wasn't good.

You btw seem to be ignoring many things. You say building places to live doesn't matter if people aren't living in them, but the facts i've shown over and over again show people are moving to them at a high rate. Our downtown population is increasing at twice the rate as STL, we have over 5k more people living in our downtown then STL.

Does KC need to do more? Yes. I never said it didn't... i think it has a lot more to do, but the article doesn't give any significance to STL doing better.. and no it doesn't take into account the P&L district, it even says that its "being built" but not that it was including residents of it that weren't open at the time.

The KC star being critical (which it should be) is far from STL own articles by their citizens and comments on other forums that aren't filled with fanboys talking about how crappy the downtown is.

People who complain about urban developments such as P&L are retarded, thats a fact! It brings people downtown they may otherwise not have gone, its for people to have fun, and it redeveloped an area that was just blight before hand. If you want to say thats a bad thing fine, considering I lived in middle of down KC for several years, I think I can say i'm a true urbanite, and I would have gone to P&L district along with the other places i went too back then... people that may not have gone down there before now go and might find something else that attracts them they may never have known about.

[Brickmama]

2 years ago in downtown STL.... and it was a snoozefest.

Where downtown? What time of the day and year?

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

2 years ago in downtown STL.... and it was a snoozefest.

Where downtown? What time of the day and year?

April or May maybe... went to union station, the landing... i honestly don't remember cuz I just went where my friends went, and didn't think much of it... now thats not to say I hated it, but it wasn't anything great... and there were a lot less people then i expected... I was there both during the day and night at different times. I've been to STL prob 10 times or so in my life, so i'm not gonna say im an authority on STL....

But my opinion can only be given based on what I saw... I will say STL has some of the rudest people i've ever met (LA by far is way way more polite and laid back, I give that example cuz many people tend to think those in LA are rude) and that makes me dislike the city even more, you can check your own STL forums for people talking about how racist many of STL residents are.

So, my personal experience, the experience of others I know, and of course the statistical facts which i've posted several times to back up certain statements (KC has done more to expand for residents, has a higher population downtown, is growing faster, etc..)...

so i'll agree with your fellow STL people who I quoted... and you should agree with them to since your very proud of STL (of course i'm not ashamed since I don't live there LOL)

"I am not ashamed to live in one of the most boring cities in the U.S"

[ShadowCaver]

Originally Posted by skrazzle

April or May maybe... went to union station, the landing... i honestly don't remember cuz I just went where my friends went, and didn't think much of it... now thats not to say I hated it, but it wasn't anything great... and there were a lot less people then i expected... I was there both during the day and night at different times. I've been to STL prob 10 times or so in my life, so i'm not gonna say im an authority on STL....

But my opinion can only be given based on what I saw... I will say STL has some of the rudest people i've ever met (LA by far is way way more polite and laid back, I give that example cuz many people tend to think those in LA are rude) and that makes me dislike the city even more, you can check your own STL forums for people talking about how racist many of STL residents are.

So, my personal experience, the experience of others I know, and of course the statistical facts which i've posted several times to back up certain statements (KC has done more to expand for residents, has a higher population downtown, is growing faster, etc..)...

so i'll agree with your fellow STL people who I quoted... and you should agree with them to since your very proud of STL (of course i'm not ashamed since I don't live there LOL)

"I am not ashamed to live in one of the most boring cities in the U.S"

skrazzle - wow, you simply don't cease to amaze me...

Brickmama provided a link, to a KC newspaper, that had unbiased non-objective comparisons of 14 other downtowns, including StL. You dissed this, as it was 'old' - at ~7 months, this article is deemed 'old', by you, and therefore irrelevant.

You provide your own [I would wager to say biased ] report, on a trip to downtown area StL, when you accompanied some friends,,, TWO years ago. True, you disclaim your own POV by stating "I've been to STL prob 10 times or so in my life, so i'm not gonna say im an authority on STL...." Yet sure does seem that many of your posts slamming StL are based on this trip, and also upon your reading some forums were who knows who are posting whatever drivel that they desire...

So, comparing a KC Star newspaper article that is just a tad over 1/2 year old to your trip of ~2 years ago. Nice...

MOD NOTE: Now, with that all said, and as been stated before,,, StL ain't perfect,,, KC ain't perfect - both are good, and both have problems... they are of different histories, different cultures, different peoples, different governments. We can spend another umpteen pages going back and forth dissing the other's city - finding faults and reasons to peeve on the other. That however is NOT the point or reason of this thread... so, lets get back on track to compare, point out differences that are helpful and constructive to people interested in moving/visiting/etc these two communities. I do not want to close a thread due to it turning into a peeving match [city vs. city is forum for that]... esp. thread as this that does offer much good advice and comments elsewhere. Thanks.

[skrazzle]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Ahh yes the recession is why you guys had to pass bond issues to build bars. That makes perfect sense.

If we hadn't have issued any bonds there wouldn't be the troubles right now... but the more important question is without the meltdown would the P&L district be meeting the projections to pay the bonds? All signs show that they would...

there are city budgets all over the US that are at risk because of the failure of companies like AIG... this isn't something that is unique to KC.